First time to start the game with a technical

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I too think a bus crash or unexpected circumstances is warranted for some leniency. I'll be honest, I don't know why the coach was late, maybe I should have asked why before making a ruling. The opposing coach vocalized his concern about getting the underclassmen to another game across town. I felt like this was a fair decision, to charge a team tech for the book so that hopefully in the future this situation will be avoided. It didn't seem like an excessively harsh penalty and I am glad we also did not charge a second tech for not being ready to play. I feel like that was a good decision.

The start time is not the time you are given with your assignment -- it's the time the home team gives you when you on site. If the home team isn't on the floor ready to play, how is this your concern as an official? They aren't ready, you don't play.

(Side question: Was there a countdown timer on the clock? Was it counting down?)

If I whacked a team every time they weren't ready to go by the posted start time, I'd have to call technicals 80% of the time when the JV game ran over. While that might be fun, it certainly isn't the right thing to do.

[MD Longhorn]

I would never issue a T for this. If the team is on the court, dressed, and then refuses to come out - sure ... that's what the rule is for.

But for some sort of unforeseen pre-game snafu? No.

If it was protracted, I might inform my assignor of what happened, so they can be aware ... perhaps it's an ongoing problem at that school - who knows. But penalizing the team in the actual game? No.

(And as to the visitors trying to play players in 2 games at 2 sites? They have to be aware that there are a great number of things that could cause the game to end late (including simple things like overtime) - if they intend to have players play in 2 different places on the same day, they assume the risk.)

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

The start time is not the time you are given with your assignment -- it's the time the home team gives you when you on site. If the home team isn't on the floor ready to play, how is this your concern as an official? They aren't ready, you don't play.

(Side question: Was there a countdown timer on the clock? Was it counting down?)

If I whacked a team every time they weren't ready to go by the posted start time, I'd have to call technicals 80% of the time when the JV game ran over. While that might be fun, it certainly isn't the right thing to do.

Well, varsity start times are usually scheduled variably. The start time is scheduled as 20/30 minutes after the end of the JV game. Yes, they give an estimate but that's not really the scheduled start time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Well, varsity start times are usually scheduled variably. The start time is scheduled as 20/30 minutes after the end of the JV game. Yes, they give an estimate but that's not really the scheduled start time.

Not sure about that. The newspaper says 7:30PM, my contract says 7:30PM...

My point is that you need to be flexible and there's no reason to be "that guy" if something unusual happens.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

Not sure about that. The newspaper says 7:30PM, my contract says 7:30PM...

My point is that you need to be flexible and there's no reason to be "that guy" if something unusual happens.

I agree. I'm not looking for a T here, but I think the visiting team in the OP can force the issue.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree. I'm not looking for a T here, but I think the visiting team in the OP can force the issue.

Not if I'm back in the locker room, they can't.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree. I'm not looking for a T here, but I think the visiting team in the OP can force the issue.

How?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How?

I think at least the T for not providing the roster to the scorer applies. If the visiting team demands that I assess it, I don't see how I could avoid doing so.

I'd rather stay out of it if possible.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I think at least the T for not providing the roster to the scorer applies. If the visiting team demands that I assess it, I don't see how I could avoid doing so.

I'd rather stay out of it if possible.

I don't call anything because the other team demands it. It is possible, so stay out of it.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't call anything because the other team demands it. It is possible, so stay out of it.

I'm going to have to disagree. The roster wasn't there 10 minutes before the scheduled start time. Yes, there were extenuating circumstances that should cause a good-sportsman opponent wave the T, but I don't see how I can ignore it if they won't.

You wouldn't just ignore the T for adding a player during the game, especially if the coach demanded you apply the rule and for me this is a similar enough situation. I don't have a problem with it not being that way for you.

It's never happened to me. In fact, I've even had a team refuse to accept a T for adding a player during a game.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm going to have to disagree. The roster wasn't there 10 minutes before the scheduled start time. Yes, there were extenuating circumstances that should cause a good-sportsman opponent wave the T, but I don't see how I can ignore it if they won't.

You wouldn't just ignore the T for adding a player during the game, especially if the coach demanded you apply the rule and for me this is a similar enough situation. I don't have a problem with it not being that way for you.

It's never happened to me. In fact, I've even had a team refuse to accept a T for adding a player during a game.

It has been agreed upon by some, not all, that the "scheduled start time" is a bit of a gray area. I wouldn't ignore a T for anything, but if I did, that wouldn't change because of the insistence of the opposing coach. On the other hand, a team does not have the option of refusing to accept a T. They can intentionally miss the free throws and throw the ball out of bounds if they wish.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It has been agreed upon by some, not all, that the "scheduled start time" is a bit of a gray area. I wouldn't ignore a T for anything, but if I did, that wouldn't change because of the insistence of the opposing coach.

I certainly seem to have the firmest definition of scheduled start time.

On the other hand, a team does not have the option of refusing to accept a T. They can intentionally miss the free throws and throw the ball out of bounds if they wish.

A point I tried unsuccessfully to make to the referee at the time.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I certainly seem to have the firmest definition of scheduled start time.

What if the late coach has the key to the gym and everybody is waiting outside? Do you T both teams for not having their lineup submitted?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

especially if the coach demanded you apply the rule and for me this is a similar enough situation.

I have no problem with your interpretation of the rule, and if you decided to issue a T where most of us wouldn't, I have no problem with that either.

However, this is twice you seemed to intimate that "especially if the coach demanded..." matters to you. It should not. Ever. If you decided it was a T, it's a T. If you decided it's not, it's not. Opposing coach's insistence is completely and entirely irrelevant, and honestly it irks me to some degree that you seem to consider it relevant.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I have no problem with your interpretation of the rule, and if you decided to issue a T where most of us wouldn't, I have no problem with that either.

However, this is twice you seemed to intimate that "especially if the coach demanded..." matters to you. It should not. Ever. If you decided it was a T, it's a T. If you decided it's not, it's not. Opposing coach's insistence is completely and entirely irrelevant, and honestly it irks me to some degree that you seem to consider it relevant.

Look at it this way: the home team needs the visiting team's agreement to reschedule the start time. The teams have a contract that specifies the start time. The teams may, by common consent, reschedule the start time at any point prior to the ball being tossed.

The visiting team's coach in this instance is demonstrating that he does not agree to the rescheduling and so it is a T. If he doesn't ask for it, he is agreeing to the rescheduling so there is no infraction.

Whether or not there is a T depends on whether the scheduled start time is changed which depends on the other coach agreeing to the change. So, yes, the T is up to the offended coach, imo.

For my part, I'm going to try to talk him into agreeing to just start the game.