Butler-Gonzaga finish

[Rich]

I only saw the end. A foul on either the inbounds pass or the drive never once entered my mind and wouldn't have ever entered my mind if I hadn't seen this thread today.

These are not fouls at the college level or high school level or any other level. Contact is not a foul.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by drofficial

My point exactly: When a defender leans and leans, and then clearly pushes with an extended arm, we now call that "incidental contact" simply because the offended player does not fall to the floor. And we wonder why we have trouble with flopping.

When we have bodies on the floor, we have to call something. But if we have an obvious push and the player does not fall down, it's incidental contact. Think of the foolishness of that philosophy.

When I viewed the clip, I was expecting something big. I'm still looking.

You are out to lunch on this one.

[Camron Rust]

Is this the right video? I can't find anything in it that matches the claims of drofficial?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by drofficial

My point exactly: When a defender leans and leans, and then clearly pushes with an extended arm, we now call that "incidental contact" simply because the offended player does not fall to the floor. And we wonder why we have trouble with flopping.

When we have bodies on the floor, we have to call something. But if we have an obvious push and the player does not fall down, it's incidental contact. Think of the foolishness of that philosophy.

LOL. You don't officiate do you? What you consider "clearly" is something I don't see at all.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

LOL. You don't officiate do you? What you consider "clearly" is something I don't see at all.

Video review question on block charge

Dipping the shoulder seems to be a POE for the good doctor.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by drofficial

....Then he committed an offensive fould by dipping his shoulder and creating contact, which gave him a clear advantage by creating space.

....

You have to be F.K.M. Dipping his shoulder and creating contact? Classic fan-boy statement.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You have to be F.K.M. Dipping his shoulder and creating contact? Classic fan-boy statement.

Agreed, If I was forced to make a call either way, I'd have a block.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by drofficial

The guy who stole the ball in the final seconds last night committed two fouls. Of course, no "good official" would ever call either one in that case. But by rule both were fouls. He pushed the big kid out of the way (leaning on him AND extending the arm on the push)... Then he committed an offensive fould by dipping his shoulder and creating contact, which gave him a clear advantage by creating space.

It's too bad that basketball is not officiated by the rules. It would make the game much better.

I agree there was a push on the inbounds play to creat space to catch.

Video clearly shows A1 does not dip his shoulder on the dribble drive.

[APG]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I agree there was a push on the inbounds play to creat space to catch.

Video clearly shows A1 does not dip his shoulder on the dribble drive.

Where is this magical interpretation that states if one shoulder is lower than the other, then it's an offensive/player control foul?

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by APG

Where is this magical interpretation that states if one shoulder is lower than the other, then it's an offensive/player control foul?

The OP states A1's shoulder dips (thereby implying A1 fouled B1). I'm merely stating the video clearly shows the offensive player doesn't dip his shoulder.

jar clearly disagrees.

[APG]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The OP states A1's shoulder dips (thereby implying A1 fouled B1). I'm merely stating the video clearly shows the offensive player doesn't dip his shoulder.

jar clearly disagrees.

Didn't mean that to be directed necessarily at you....I just don't like the term in general and don't use it. It sends up warning flags to me, much like an official that uses something along the lines of getting a player with the body in trying to explain a foul.

[just another ref]

I personally use the expression in the process of describing a play.


"He dipped his shoulder and took it straight into the defender's chest."

But the straight into the chest is the part that really matters. When a player does dip the shoulder, it often means he is committed to his path and helps us to anticipate a play.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by APG

Didn't mean that to be directed necessarily at you....I just don't like the term in general and don't use it. It sends up warning flags to me, much like an official that uses something along the lines of getting a player with the body in trying to explain a foul.

(Similar to you, I'm sure) I like to use terms like "displacement" and "verticality" as opposed to "got him with the body".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

Didn't mean that to be directed necessarily at you....I just don't like the term in general and don't use it. It sends up warning flags to me, much like an official that uses something along the lines of getting a player with the body in trying to explain a foul.

It burns me too. There is actually contact in the game of basketball.

I love it when a coach asks, "There was contact on that play right?" Of course silly, but since when did that make a situation a foul?

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by APG

Didn't mean that to be directed necessarily at you....I just don't like the term in general and don't use it. It sends up warning flags to me, much like an official that uses something along the lines of getting a player with the body in trying to explain a foul.

Agreed, but it does make me watch closer and changes the benefit of the doubt.