Game Management

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yes - for some the travel filter for the losing team may be lightened.

But where are traveling complaints going to come from? The coach winning by 40 isn't going to complain if the losing team travels. I'm just saying that a losing coach won't say much to you if you don't miss the winning team travels. (Assuming this isn't the rare game with zero travels.)

I see what you're saying now. Another game management lesson I learned just last week which I'm still thinking about - we had a team getting beat by about 15 in the waning minutes of the game, and I was working with 2 very respected college officials. Game was going fine - no issues with the officiating. With under a minute left, I was new lead in transition on a breakaway for the team that was losing and the lone defender was very athletic and playing excellent defense all the way down and was able to get great position as the player stopped and jumped for a 3 footer that missed. The coach was up wanting a foul and is in my C's ear. There's a stoppage for a violation and the coach is asking me why there wasn't a foul and I just tell him it was great defense. Game ends.

As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

If that contact/no contact was on film/video, what would it show?

If it clearly showed no foul, and said coach watched it with you, how would he react? If you ask him directly, "do you want me to contravene my integrity and call a non-existent foul?", what would he say?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If that contact/no contact was on film/video, what would it show?

If it clearly showed no foul, and said coach watched it with you, how would he react? If you ask him directly, "do you want me to contravene my integrity and call a non-existent foul?", what would he say?

I think, after the fact, he would be fine, but I don't think that's the point. I think the point was it was a heat of the moment kind of thing that could have been diffused with a call. A game management tool. This was the takeaway I was supposed to get from it.

Could it have been a foul in another game? Maybe - there was contact. Would it have been a foul at any other time in this game? No.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I think, after the fact, he would be fine, but I don't think that's the point. I think the point was it was a heat of the moment kind of thing that could have been diffused with a call. A game management tool. This was the takeaway I was supposed to get from it.

Could it have been a foul in another game? Maybe - there was contact. Would it have been a foul at any other time in this game? No.

A double-edged sword of sorts. Consistency, or satisfy a coach. I guess you have to decide what fits in your local group.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

A double-edged sword of sorts. Consistency, or satisfy a coach. I guess you have to decide what fits in your local group.

That's why I am still thinking about it. But there have always been things I have had to compromise on as I've moved up in any association. I really do get his point - it's just not the mindframe I'm used to being in.

[JugglingReferee]

For what it's worth, I think consistency is *always the point*. That's just me, though.

17 years ago when I first went to camp, the camp leaders (then college ball officials and now national and international officials) had us in groups to discuss the issues from non-officials angles. The two elements that each group came up with were consistency and communication. When a good friend of mine went to camp 10 years ago, the same conclusions were met. Now that I train my local board inexperienced officials, I asked them about their recent camp experiences. "Consistency and communication" were the two elements stressed. Guess what? 10 years from now it will be consistency and communication.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

A double-edged sword of sorts. Consistency, or satisfy a coach. I guess you have to decide what fits in your local group.

Consistency? I have consistency in a blow out game...the player of the team losing breaks away for a 3 ft. jump shot...there is some "contact"...

I have a foul...almost always...what is NOT consistent with that?

Listen to your "big dawg" Smitty.

Having said that and having read a lot about wiggle room and such, in this forum, newer officials should BEWARE!

I tell newer officials to just call the game. Call what they see. In my experiences...when I have tried to explain some of these "philosophical" principals that we have been discussing here...the officials' eyes glaze over and they end up not knowing if they should call a foul, travel, 3 seconds, enforce the box, etc. or when they should or should not call said violations and fouls.

I totally agree with Smitty's "big dawg's" philosophy.

But, you better have some credability and experience before you get too comfortable using that philosophy in a game situation.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

.

Thanks for that.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Thanks for that.

Your Welcome, "Big Dawg"...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Consistency? I have consistency in a blow out game...the player of the team losing breaks away for a 3 ft. jump shot...there is some "contact"...

I have a foul...almost always...what is NOT consistent with that?

Listen to your "big dawg" Smitty.

Having said that and having read a lot about wiggle room and such, in this forum, newer officials should BEWARE!

I tell newer officials to just call the game. Call what they see. In my experiences...when I have tried to explain some of these "philosophical" principals that we have been discussing here...the officials' eyes glaze over and they end up not knowing if they should call a foul, travel, 3 seconds, enforce the box, etc. or when they should or should not call said violations and fouls.

I totally agree with Smitty's "big dawg's" philosophy.

But, you better have some credability and experience before you get too comfortable using that philosophy in a game situation.

Post of the week.

[upanddown]

I get the general opinion when in a blowout game and issue being fair consistant and pecisehen making the tough call versus no call or making a mercy call when outcome has no bearing. But its evaluating the entire game in hindsite for that fair and consistant ending that begs me to frame a solid pregame, half and post the next time. Yes Im looking for that perfect pre mid post and during the game communication where the entire crew is in sync start to finish without philisophical, style or personality imbalance. I believe it can happen it s hould happen because its for kids players fans and the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

...
As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

So what did he expect you to do, call a foul after the coach started complaining? How are you supposed to know that the coach would get upset over that play? Or was there contact on the play and you passed on it? (I see now that you said there was). I'm assuming there were other plays where the crew passed on contact and you say you had a game where there had been no issues with the coaches, so how are you supposed to know this one play would trigger something?

I see where your partner is coming from as far as learning a game mgmt tool, but I have a problem with the way he presented it, as if you were supposed to know that all of a sudden this one play would cause a problem.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So what did he expect you to do, call a foul after the coach started complaining? How are you supposed to know that the coach would get upset over that play? Or was there contact on the play and you passed on it?

Good question. I think he was irritated that he had to take the brunt of the coach's emotions. As I said earlier there was minimal contact that would not have been a foul at any other time in that game. If anything, the defensive player, who was faster and more athletic, had great position and it was the offensive player who created any of the contact. During the game, there were definitely more calls made against the losing team on drives to the basket because they were not nearly as athletic and able to control their bodies, so they would often be late defending and foul as a result. This play was just another case where the winning team was more athletic and able to maintain good defensive position and not foul as a result.

[Smitty]

Just received an email listing the representatives from our association who have been assigned to the state tournament and this guy is one of the three on the list. So that certainly gives him some credibility. That's a pretty big honor in these parts...

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Just received an email listing the representatives from our association who have been assigned to the state tournament and this guy is one of the three on the list. So that certainly gives him some credibility. That's a pretty big honor in these parts...

So, Smitty, were you on the list?