0.4 second Catch & Shoot

[chicodork]

By rule, a player can't catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or less from an inbound pass. This obviously means you can catch and shoot with 0.4 seconds or more on the clock. Counting tenths of a second in your head is impossible so how quick do they have to shoot with 0.4 seconds? 0.6? 0.9?

In tonight's game, at the end of the first quarter, with 0.4 seconds on the clock and the ball in the frontcourt, Team A inbounds the ball, and the buzzer goes off as soon as she catches. She catches and makes the shot. My partner waves it off because of the buzzer, but everybody knew it went off too early. Game was 20-2, so coach put up a mild protest and we moved on.

I just want to make sure I have it correct next time.

[Nevadaref]

You can correct an obvious timing mistake if you have definite knowledge, but barring that the player is at the mercy of how quickly the timer starts the clock and when the horn sounds.

[chicodork]

Are they still at the mercy of the timer if I know the clock started early? But having definite knowledge when we are talking about tenths of a second is tricky

[just another ref]

It happens at all levels. End of the first half the other night, Duke-Davidson,
horn clearly sounded before the ball was touched inbounds. No correction.
Half over.

[chicodork]

I appreciate the reply, but if we have the authority to end a quarter early if the clock was slow to start, then why can't we put time on if the clock starts early?

[Camron Rust]

The 0.4 time is not really time for a "normal" shot. They pretty much have to be in the middle of the shooting motion as they catch it.

If they catch it and then go up for a shot, even immediately and quickly, it is going to take more than 0.4. How much? I don't know. It varies, of course. But I know it when I see it and it really isn't that hard to tell.

If you any background in music at all, it is not hard to subdivide a second in to fractional parts. Musicians do it a a regular part of their trade. Even amateur musicians or even people a small amount of musical training should be able to do it with relative ease...did your mother make you take piano or violin lessons for a year or two???

If your arm swing is fairly smooth, each direction of the movement is already giving you 0.5 seconds (120 beats per minute). If you can then mentally divide each direction of the arm swing into 2, you have 0.25 second markers. If you can divide it into 4 (16th notes in 4/4 time), you can get markers of 0.125 seconds.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chicodork

I appreciate the reply, but if we have the authority to end a quarter early if the clock was slow to start, then why can't we put time on if the clock starts early?

By rule, the key phrase is definite knowledge. When dealing in tenths, there is no definite knowledge. In your play, ball touched inbounds, horn sounds, by rule there is nothing you can do.

Which is not to say it has never been done.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chicodork

Are they still at the mercy of the timer if I know the clock started early? But having definite knowledge when we are talking about tenths of a second is tricky

Unless you can state how many tenths early the clock started, then you don't have definite knowledge and there is nothing that you can do. The quarter ends.
Timers have to do their own jobs. The game officials on the court can't do it all.

[Camron Rust]

Too many people confuse definite with accurate. They are not the same. There are case plays that establish that an officials count, no matter how accurate, is official, even if very inaccurate. If you have any count, even in 10ths, it can be used. It doesn't have to be anything more. Definite only means that you know you counted to a certain time, not that it is accurate or precise. If you feel comfortable counting parts of a second, the rules support it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Too many people confuse definite with accurate. They are not the same. There are case plays that establish that an officials count, no matter how accurate, is official, even if very inaccurate. If you have any count, even in 10ths, it can be used. It doesn't have to be anything more. Definite only means that you know you counted to a certain time, not that it is accurate or precise. If you feel comfortable counting parts of a second, the rules support it.

While this is true, I don't know any official who is going to have an arm swing and count when play is resumed with 0.4 secs on the clock.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

While this is true, I don't know any official who is going to have an arm swing and count when play is resumed with 0.4 secs on the clock.

I may not have an arm swing but I will have a count.