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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 06:03pm
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Throw in violation, or legal play?

This got brought up in our meeting last night as we were talking about throw ins. We know it is illegal for the defense to reach through the boundary prior to the throw in being released (7-6-4 and 9-2-10). No issues there. The play in question is after a made basket when the offense throws a pass to another teammate who is also oob on the other side of the key. Can the defense reach through and deflect this pass or would this be a technical foul? I believe it is a smart and legal play by the defense since the ball was released by the thrower. Others disagree in saying that this is not released on the throw in pass. Nothing in case book that I could find, although I only looked in the rules referenced above and their related case plays.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 06:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
This got brought up in our meeting last night as we were talking about throw ins. We know it is illegal for the defense to reach through the boundary prior to the throw in being released (7-6-4 and 9-2-10). No issues there. The play in question is after a made basket when the offense throws a pass to another teammate who is also oob on the other side of the key. Can the defense reach through and deflect this pass or would this be a technical foul? I believe it is a smart and legal play by the defense since the ball was released by the thrower. Others disagree in saying that this is not released on the throw in pass. Nothing in case book that I could find, although I only looked in the rules referenced above and their related case plays.
All you need to know in this case. It was not a throw-in pass. So, the player reached over prior to the throw-in pass being released.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 06:22pm
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College rule

Did find the college rule and related case play. It is a tech (kind depends on men's or women's). A.R.193. College rule is worded slightly different from NFHS.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 06:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
Did find the college rule and related case play. It is a tech (kind depends on men's or women's). A.R.193. College rule is worded slightly different from NFHS.
The ruling (if not the exact rule) is the same in all codes.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 07:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
Others disagree in saying that this is not released on the throw in pass.
The others are correct. It is not a throw-in pass, so the defense cannot touch it. Technical foul.

10.3.10 SITUATION B:
After a field goal, the score is A-55, B-54. A1 has the ball out of bounds for a throw-in with two seconds remaining in the game. A1 throws the ball toward A2 who also is out of bounds along the end line. B2 reaches across the end line and grabs or slaps the ball while it is in flight. Time expires close to the moment the official indicates the infraction.
RULING: A technical is charged against B2. The remaining time or whether Team B had been previously warned for a delay-of-game situation is not a factor. No free throws are awarded as the winner of the game has been determined. (9-2-10 Penalty 3, 4)

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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 08:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
Did find the college rule and related case play. It is a tech (kind depends on men's or women's). A.R.193. College rule is worded slightly different from NFHS.
The rule parameters and penalties are exactly the same for this in NCAA W and M; the technical fouls associated with them just have different classifying names.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 11:51pm
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Thanks

Tony,

Thanks for the HS case play. I knew I had seen it before. Guess I was wrong and owe the other guy a beer! D'oh! Oh well, fortunatly, this was not a game call, just a discussion so it's all good in that I didn't screw this up in real life! Otherwise, a letter might have been written!

Thanks for the replies from all.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 11:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
Tony,

Thanks for the HS case play. I knew I had seen it before. Guess I was wrong and owe the other guy a beer! D'oh! Oh well, fortunatly, this was not a game call, just a discussion so it's all good in that I didn't screw this up in real life! Otherwise, a letter might have been written!

Thanks for the replies from all.
Thanks for being a HS fan.
Sincerely,
The guy who would have received the letter
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2013, 11:57pm
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Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
Thanks for being a HS fan.
Sincerely,
The guy who would have received the letter
I don't care who you are, that's funny there!
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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 01:14am
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I don't mean to sound like a d-bag, but isn't this pretty elementary?

TexRef, what level do these guys work that were involved in this discussion?
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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 10:37am
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
I don't mean to sound like a d-bag, but isn't this pretty elementary?

TexRef, what level do these guys work that were involved in this discussion?
zm, we are mostly varsity officials. I was the one who thought it was legal, they said it wasn't. Basic, maybe, maybe not. I had a brain fart. It happens to all of us so I'm not sure what the relevance is of your post?
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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 11:40am
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So the defense would have to wait until they were sure the ball had broken the plane before reaching for it? How can they judge that (successfully)? Suppose the pass is not to an out of bounds teammate, but a cross court pass to an inbounds player in opposite corner? You are going to expect a defender, with his team down by one, not to reach for that ball? I'm not talking about the onball defender, but probably a secondary defender in a press setup somewhere closer to receiver. There would be a point somewhere in that pass that the ball crosses the plane, but probably hard for a player to know in heat of battle. If there is no out of bounds receiver on this play, we all would assume that at any point after release of ball the defense could legally reach for it, correct? I'm kinda playing devils advocate here, realizing the OP was referencing an obvious pass between two out of bounds teammates and the defender most likely even crosses the plane himself to grab the ball. Here I have the obvious T, but think we have to be careful regarding exactly where the pass is headed, and at what point it is touched.
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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 11:46am
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Yes, we (and the players) have to judge whether it's a "throw-in pass" or a "pass to another teammate oob".

Sometimes you need to officiate (play).

Whether the ball has crossed the plane yet doesn't matter in the first instance.
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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letemplay View Post
So the defense would have to wait until they were sure the ball had broken the plane before reaching for it?
Just like they have to determine other things. If they don't do things the right way, there are consequences. It really is that simple.

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Old Fri Jan 04, 2013, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
This got brought up in our meeting last night as we were talking about throw ins. We know it is illegal for the defense to reach through the boundary prior to the throw in being released (7-6-4 and 9-2-10). No issues there. The play in question is after a made basket when the offense throws a pass to another teammate who is also oob on the other side of the key. Can the defense reach through and deflect this pass or would this be a technical foul? I believe it is a smart and legal play by the defense since the ball was released by the thrower. Others disagree in saying that this is not released on the throw in pass. Nothing in case book that I could find, although I only looked in the rules referenced above and their related case plays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by letemplay View Post
So the defense would have to wait until they were sure the ball had broken the plane before reaching for it? How can they judge that (successfully)? Suppose the pass is not to an out of bounds teammate, but a cross court pass to an inbounds player in opposite corner? You are going to expect a defender, with his team down by one, not to reach for that ball? I'm not talking about the onball defender, but probably a secondary defender in a press setup somewhere closer to receiver. There would be a point somewhere in that pass that the ball crosses the plane, but probably hard for a player to know in heat of battle. If there is no out of bounds receiver on this play, we all would assume that at any point after release of ball the defense could legally reach for it, correct? I'm kinda playing devils advocate here, realizing the OP was referencing an obvious pass between two out of bounds teammates and the defender most likely even crosses the plane himself to grab the ball. Here I have the obvious T, but think we have to be careful regarding exactly where the pass is headed, and at what point it is touched.
Fixed it for ya! No charge. (Actually, I didn't change a thing from the original post).
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