Teaching new church league refs

[bainsey]

The concept of control -- player control, team control, no control -- and when control starts and ends. These affect so many other rules.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Nothing wrong with that. I just ask because many leagues have gone to rules that allow them to have licensed officials work as a mandate. It makes little difference, but with liability always in the backdrop and time to teach others rules, that seems to be what is done here. I know there are some leagues that might have HS kids work or non-licensed adults, but it seems to the norm they contact an existing high school assignor or local officials association and use their officials. I get emails literally every day to work some league somewhere and cover everything from middle school to men's leagues in many places.

Peace

My one Youth League uses all kids and non-licensed adults. Another uses kids and non-licensed adults for all 15U and below, but, the B16-18 division uses licensed officials. Then we have several others through our association that use strictly licensed adults. I don't know what the liability is.

Just shows to go you......

[rsl]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I was with you right up until here.....

I took this list from 10-6-1, but I missed the last one (block):

Types of fouls (demonstrate each one)
Hold, Push, Illegal use of hands, Player control, Trip, Block

I'd love to update my training. How would you best summarize fouls for a short training?

10-6-1
A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

My one Youth League uses all kids and non-licensed adults. Another uses kids and non-licensed adults for all 15U and below, but, the B16-18 division uses licensed officials. Then we have several others through our association that use strictly licensed adults. I don't know what the liability is.

Just shows to go you......

There is a percieved issue that licensed officials go through a lot of training in order to work games. The same applies to Pop Warner/Bill George Football leagues and Little League or Youth Baseball around here as well. In baseball and softball for example, most leagues have such a rule that there are many officials just licensed so they can work those leagues and almost never work high school at all. I am not so sure I think all of that is necessary, but someone is telling them to go that route. Just wondering.

Peace

[rsl]

I have trained HS kids to officiate for county youth leagues, but last year the county decided to use adults. They did not require NFHS tests, but made they made their own certification test from the previous year's NFHS test. The adults worked out much better than the HS kids, but only because they got more respect from parents. I don't think they are better officials.

I have also trained adults for our local church leagues. There, they often required team members to ref the game before or after the game they played in. So, it was a victory to get consistent referees who at least had a couple of hours of training.

Legal liability has never been raised as an issue. Are there really laws about these things?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rsl

Legal liability has never been raised as an issue. Are there really laws about these things?

Perceived liability is often about fear more than anything else. It does not mean that there is actually a court case, but if there have been threats of litigation or possible inquiries, a lot of these leagues do not have the resources to fight a lawsuit even if they did nothing wrong legally.

Peace

[just another ref]

Tell them not to be afraid to make a call late.

"I see it......no, wait.......yeah, that's what happened! Oops, too late now."

It's not too late. Blow the whistle.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... threats of litigation or possible inquiries, ..

For what?! Participants sign waivers...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rekent

For what?! Participants sign waivers...

I do not know what a waiver has to do with the officials you hire and if they are perceived as being competent to do their job. I doubt that a waiver is going to prevent from all litigation. I know just as an official is we do not apply a safety issue we can open ourselves for some liability if we ignore certain safety rules or procedures. Concussion procedure comes to mind.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rekent

For what?! Participants sign waivers...

A waiver doesn't exempt another party from liability in cases of negligence. For example, if you were to ignore the rules pertaining to blood or concussions, you could be sued for negligence and that waiver wouldn't be worth a damn.

[BktBallRef]

Here ya go, Jack. Print these and hand them out.

www.southeasternbasketball.org/doc/DTM-over-the-back.doc

www.southeasternbasketball.org/doc/DTM-over-and-back.doc

www.southeasternbasketball.org/doc/DTM-thats-traveling.doc

www.southeasternbasketball.org/doc/DTM-three-seconds.doc

PM me an email address and I'll send you some more.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

A waiver doesn't exempt another party from liability in cases of negligence. For example, if you were to ignore the rules pertaining to blood or concussions, you could be sued for negligence and that waiver wouldn't be worth a damn.

But the rules for blood and concussions are made (in the case of high schools) by NFHS are they not? Which means unless the church implemented the same blood and concussion policies, there can be no negligence because the official owed no duty with regard to those issues.

And it could be made to protect the guys regardless who are reffing, if it was done carefully.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rekent

But the rules for blood and concussions are made (in the case of high schools) by NFHS are they not? Which means unless the church implemented the same blood and concussion policies, there can be no negligence because the official owed no duty with regard to those issues.

Don't these leagues usually adopt a standard rules set of some kind? I know that many youth leagues or Men's leagues agree to apply some rules like the NF or the NCAA. And if they want to modify those rules, they modify those rules by stating what will be applied or not applied. And if those leagues choose to not have a rule for concussions it is possible someone will sue on that basis if they are not diagnosed or properly not allowed to play.

Peace

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by Adam

I would try to be there the first few games, at least the first single game for each official, to provide some instant feedback. And make sure the coaches are behaving.

I do try to attend as many of the games as I can. I usually ref 2 games ( we have 11 games on Saturdays ) We use certified officials for the HS games and some MS games. I try to stay for about 3 more. My son is 15 this will be his 2nd year of reffing. He is very good from all the stories I have brought home since he was 4 years old.

Over all our coaches are good. It really is a Church based league.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The question I have, is why don't you use already existing officials for this league? These kind of leagues are the way officials around here make some extra money and to fill out some parts of their schedule for younger officials?

Peace

We have 2 returning kids from last year, we have 3 adults that help as needed and we use certified officials for the HS games.

We always need more officials. I will have 6 new officials in my class on Wednesday.