The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:16am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
We long switch where it makes sense. If I call a charge, I'm usually initiating a switch since I'd rather come up and properly report rather than use semaphore flags from the end line. If it's a rebounding foul and I'm the trail (for example) and we're going long, we aren't switching.

I work with a handful of people and any switch that feels awkward we usually don't do unless one of us wants to get out of the T/L position and then that official initiates a switch.

When in Rome....
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,262
Maybe it's just the soccer referee in me, but I just don't understand all the work put into avoiding long switches on fouls. There isn't anything really long on a basketball court.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:32am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
Maybe it's just the soccer referee in me, but I just don't understand all the work put into avoiding long switches on fouls. There isn't anything really long on a basketball court.
It's not the distance. To me, there are switches that look/feel natural and those that look/feel forced.

Let's say I call a foul as the trail in the front court, table side. Ball's going to be inbounded at the bench, front court, table-side.

What's the sense in me calling the foul and then forcing a switch after reporting? Give me the ball and let's inbound and get the game going again. Instead, I'm supposed to report the foul and then become the lead opposite the table?

I'm happy to do either, but it just makes sense to me to not switch in this situation.

I get that this isn't a long switch -- not all goofy switches are long switches, IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:45am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It's not the distance. To me, there are switches that look/feel natural and those that look/feel forced.

Let's say I call a foul as the trail in the front court, table side. Ball's going to be inbounded at the bench, front court, table-side.

What's the sense in me calling the foul and then forcing a switch after reporting? Give me the ball and let's inbound and get the game going again. Instead, I'm supposed to report the foul and then become the lead opposite the table?

I'm happy to do either, but it just makes sense to me to not switch in this situation.

I get that this isn't a long switch -- not all goofy switches are long switches, IMO.
Plus 110%.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It's not the distance. To me, there are switches that look/feel natural and those that look/feel forced.

...

I'm happy to do either, but it just makes sense to me to not switch in this situation.

I get that this isn't a long switch -- not all goofy switches are long switches, IMO.
The point of switches is that it ensures that both teams get relatively the same coverage from each official through out the game. In 3-man, live ball rotations usually make that happen any way, however. But, in 2-man, if you didn't switch, you'd be lead for the same team for possibly the entire quarter/half.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:22pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The point of switches is that it ensures that both teams get relatively the same coverage from each official through out the game. In 3-man, live ball rotations usually make that happen any way, however. But, in 2-man, if you didn't switch, you'd be lead for the same team for possibly the entire quarter/half.
Let's say I buy what you're selling: Why don't we switch then on shooting fouls where the trail makes the call?

We switch often enough. No reason to do so on long switches and on switches where things feel forced. Leave it up to the crew to decide which switches make sense and which ones don't.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:26pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Board assignment: We switch on all fouls.
Youth/non-board assignment: That can vary.

Still, why WOULDN'T you switch in sitch 1, since the lead has to report the foul, anyway?
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:45pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,178
I'd Rather Fight Than Switch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Board assignment: We switch on all fouls.
Youth/non-board assignment: That can vary.
Same here in my little corner of Connecticut. In the Catholic middle school games, we switch when convenient.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:54pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Board assignment: We switch on all fouls.
Youth/non-board assignment: That can vary.

Still, why WOULDN'T you switch in sitch 1, since the lead has to report the foul, anyway?
I usually do, personally. However, this is one where we don't in 3-person (unless working NCAAM) and that's trickled down into 2-person, too.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:13pm
rsl rsl is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 301
we're lazy

Not just our local association, but the state has officially said no to long switches.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:21pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
We didn't long switch in Texas...so it was a big jump for going to a state that's fully by the book NFHS mechanics.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:22pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Here the only time we switch in two whistle is when the lead calls a shooting foul.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:46pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,520
907op[

As Bob J said we do not long switch here, but guys screw this up all the time. It is no big deal and no one other than officials care. Actually I have never seen an tournament director, clinician (and I am one) or assignor care. We are human and things get screwed up sometimes. I think some worry way too much about what a book or someone says rather than just officiating sometimes.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 828
Maybe it was just directed to me, but the clinician/assignor was concerned that I did not switch for either of the plays.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 28, 2012, 05:45pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,178
Switching ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I think some worry way too much about what a book or someone says rather than just officiating sometimes.
Proper mechanics is a part of good officiating. Proper switching is a part of good mechanics. When I work a game, I have three "official" sets of eyes watching me, my partner, and the two junior varsity officials, who will go home that night and give me a rating. This rating, along with some other criteria (peer rating is 80%), will determine my ranking among my 325 colleagues, which will determine the number of games, as well as the level of the games, that I'm assigned the following season. Mechanics makes up 10% of the "nightly" rating, and proper switching is a part of proper mechanics. So if the "book" says that I'm supposed to switch after every foul, even long switches, then I'm switching after every foul. After thirty-two years, it's automatic for me. Why not do it the proper way? Really. Why not? I'm getting $89.76 to work the game, so why would I try to save a few steps by avoiding a long switch, that, in the long run, could cost me a few assignments next year? Why?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 05:50pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full Arm Extensions and Switches bainsey Basketball 3 Sat Jan 14, 2012 05:46pm
NCAA MEN'S: Long Switches truerookie Basketball 5 Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:13pm
Long Switches twref Basketball 15 Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:47pm
long switches in HS smoref Basketball 37 Sun Dec 05, 2004 02:01am
Defensive position switches Andy Softball 1 Mon Mar 01, 2004 04:57pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1