Intentionally throwing ball off face

[OKREF]

Casebook



10.3.6 SITUATION B:

A1 has the ball out of bounds for a designated spot throw-in. B1 is putting great pressure on and the count is at four seconds when A1 throws the ball and it strikes B1's face. The ball rebounds from B1's face directly out of bounds.

RULING: The administering official will have to make a decision based upon a number of observations. Was the throw-in to B1's face purely accidental or was it a voluntary, planned act? Was the ball contact caused by the movement of the defender? Was the act of a an unsporting nature? The administering official must be aware that players often react negatively in situations where they are *frustrated or are retaliating for something which happened earlier in the game.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Casebook
10.3.6 SITUATION B:

Thanks, yea that's what I'm talking about but they conveniently leave any actual ruling out of the ruling.

[Adam]

First thought, a throw in is a live ball.

Second, if it's intentional, bye bye.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by Adam

First thought, a throw in is a live ball.

Second, if it's intentional, bye bye.

Ok, so when I was thinking that would be a flagrant I was along the right lines?

And yea, moment of stupidity, throw-in is only dead ball until the ball is at thrower's disposal, during which time it would be impossible for him to hit someone in the face with it...

[APG]

I have a hard time envisioning a player trying to save the ball and intentionally throwing the ball off a player's face. In the heat of battle, a player isn't jump, turn, and throw the ball off a player's face on purpose to save the ball.

Anyhow, if you have a player throwing the ball off a player's face on purpose, T at minimum and probably a flagrant T.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by APG

I have a hard time envisioning a player trying to save the ball and intentionally throwing the ball off a player's face. In the heat of battle, a player isn't jump, turn, and throw the ball off a player's face on purpose to save the ball.

In the past week I believe (for the life of me I cannot find the right thread) someone posted that exact thing had happened in their game and they were not sure of the intent, but later were told by the player who threw it that he threw it in the guy's face on purpose.

[APG]

Originally Posted by rekent

In the past week I believe (for the life of me I cannot find the right thread) someone posted that exact thing had happened in their game and they were not sure of the intent, but later were told by the player who threw it that he threw it in the guy's face on purpose.

Did the player mean he was trying to throw it off the player's face on purpose because it was the first body part he saw...much in the same vein of when a player is intentionally throwing the ball at a player to knock the ball off of them and hits the player in the groin?

The question I'm envisioning in your OP was one where there's clear ill intent behind throwing the ball at the player.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by APG

Did the player mean he was trying to throw it off the player's face on purpose because it was the first body part he saw...much in the same vein of when a player is intentionally throwing the ball at a player to knock the ball off of them and hits the player in the groin?

The question I'm envisioning in your OP was one where there's clear ill intent behind throwing the ball at the player.

I wish I could find the other post, because the way I understood it and what made me think of this was that the player intentionally threw it off his opponent's face unnecessarily with the intent of hitting the player in the face when other options existed.

Certainly in the situation you mentioned, intentionally but more or less blindly throwing off a player and it hits accidentally is nothing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by APG

If you have a player throwing the ball off a player's face on purpose, T at minimum and probably a flagrant T.

Even if during a live ball? Is this contact in the sense that it's a personal foul, or is this more like noncontact, as in a technical foul? Fist to face is contact, but ball to face is noncontact? I have lot's of questions. I have no answers.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even if during a live ball? Is this contact in the sense that it's a personal foul, or is this more like noncontact, as in a technical foul? Fist to face is contact, but ball to face is noncontact? I have lot's of questions. I have no answers.

You know better, Billy. Intentionally throwing the ball to the face is nothing close to a basketball move, and can only injure, intimidate, etc. Flagrant T almost* every time.


* only because I "never say never, never say always"

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by jugglingreferee

you know better, billy. Intentionally throwing the ball to the face is nothing close to a basketball move, and can only injure, intimidate, etc. Flagrant t almost* every time.


* only because i "never say never, never say always"

+1

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

You know better, Billy. Intentionally throwing the ball to the face is nothing close to a basketball move, and can only injure, intimidate, etc. Flagrant T almost every time.

I was trying to dove tail throwing the ball at an opponent with the idea of a player holding the ball and pushing the opponent away with the ball, as discussed in an earlier thread. Are both of these, or either of these, or none of these, live ball "contact" in the sense that it's a personal foul, or are both of these, either of these, or none of these, live ball noncontact, and thus a technical foul?

I'm pretty sure that the throwing is live ball noncontact, and thus a technical foul. I'm not so sure about the "push", but I'm also leaning toward a live ball noncontact technical foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rekent

Thanks, yea that's what I'm talking about but they conveniently leave any actual ruling out of the ruling.

Sometimes you need to officiate.

[jeremy341a]

Saving the ball by throwing it off an opposing player happens all the time. Where is the line crossed? Is it by certain body parts? If so would we then have to interpret if the player was throwing at some other part and accidentally hit them in an off limit part? So many questions.

I will say when I played back in highschool a teamate of mine was chasing a ball that was going backcourt after being tipped by two guys on the floor. He jumped in the air and threw it back at the guy laying on the ground in an effort to knock it off of him and out of bounds. The ball hit the player in the floor in the head. The official called him for a T then.

[Adam]

The line is with intent, IMO.