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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 02:54pm
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BR intentionally kicks ball 4

ASA rule set. B1 receives Ball 4, the ball gets away from the catcher and rolls up the 1B line. On the way to 1B, the BR intentionally kicks the ball and it goes towards the fence. When the play is over, BR is standing on 3B. What do you do? Would you do something different if there were runners on? Please provide rule/casebook references if possible.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 03:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler View Post
ASA rule set. B1 receives Ball 4, the ball gets away from the catcher and rolls up the 1B line. On the way to 1B, the BR intentionally kicks the ball and it goes towards the fence. When the play is over, BR is standing on 3B. What do you do? Would you do something different if there were runners on? Please provide rule/casebook references if possible.
Before or after I eject the player for USC?
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 04:47pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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I'm assuming you mean fast-pitch? If this happened in a slow-pitch game, there's some ucking fidiots playing the game! (and in this case, you can IGNORE my signature!)
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 05:31pm
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Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
I'm assuming you mean fast-pitch? If this happened in a slow-pitch game, there's some ucking fidiots playing the game! (and in this case, you can IGNORE my signature!)
Why? The ball is live in SP w/stealing
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 07:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler View Post
ASA rule set. B1 receives Ball 4, the ball gets away from the catcher and rolls up the 1B line. On the way to 1B, the BR intentionally kicks the ball and it goes towards the fence. When the play is over, BR is standing on 3B. What do you do? Would you do something different if there were runners on? Please provide rule/casebook references if possible.
Okay, so your point is that 8.2-F (interference by a batter-runner) and 8.7-J & L do not specifically cover an intentionally kicked Ball 4. Well, to be equally clear, the sections stating "not out" do not cover this specific scenario, either.

I think it is more than clear that this action constitutes "interference"; the exact definition in Rule 1, "The act of an offensive player or team member ... that impedes, hinders, or confuses a defensive player attempting to execute a play." This is true once the batter-runner advanced beyond first base as a result of the act that clearly hindered F2 from making a play to keep the BR to the awarded base, and/or other runners to the bases to which they were forced by the walk. Once that happened, I am calling the BR out on interference (reference the definition), and returning any other runners to the one base they might be forced to as a result of the walk.

If no runner advanced more than the base awarded by the walk (or forced to advance because of the walk), nor even attempted to, then there would be no available play to execute. I would have a conversation with the offensive coach, possibly advise how close that act is to unsportsmanlike conduct; maybe even eject for unsportsmanlike conduct, if I felt it was done out of anything beyond "having fun". But absent an advantage resulting from the act, I would not rule an out.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 08:53pm
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On the play as described -

Interference min.. USC max, although I doubt that. The out would send the message loud and clear. An offensive player has prevented a defensive player from making a play and this is a no brainer minimum of an INT call.

I get too much argument about it and the coach will not be around, because that is insulting.
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Old Wed Mar 25, 2009, 10:57pm
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GOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!!!

Bob
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 01:49am
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oh, I forgot to call/e-mail original asker of this question.

I still stand by my original statement. INT.

On first blush when presented with this scenario, I had an out for INT. Base on balls is an award. Another somewhat similar award is obstruction. The rule book is more clear about obstruction being trumped by subsequent interference trumping the obstruction. The base on balls is an award, not a guarantee. IMHO the intentional interference trumps the award in the play presented and the batter should be ruled out.
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 07:54am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Why? The ball is live in SP w/stealing
Depending on where the ball landed at the end of the pitch, causing it to get away from the catcher. Either way, I'd still have an ejection.
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 02:48pm
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When she intentionally kicked the ball, I would call "Time, Dead Ball"....Batter/Runner is "OUT" on interference and then have a pow wow with the coach that if she did it again him & her would be ejected from the game.
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 03:01pm
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Much as I would like to simply declare the BR out at the time she kicks the ball, unlike Fed, ASA requires there be a play for there to be interference, and ASA defines a play as an attempt to retire a runner.

As Steve says, unless the BR attempts to advance beyond 1B (or any other runners attempt to advance beyond where they were forced), there is no play. Hence, there is no interference.

There very well may be USC, or a warning about future USC if the act is repeated, but without a play to be interfered with, there is no interference.

In the OP, the BR did advance to 3B. In that situation, once she began her try for 2B, the kicking has now interfered with a play, so at that point, dead ball, BR out, other runners (if any) return.

I have no doubt 90% of the time you could declare the immediate dead ball and the BR out and no one would question it... the coach would probably be focusing his attention on the bone-headed move by his player.

Elaine (LadyBlue), is that you?
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 03:03pm
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Originally Posted by LadyBlue View Post
When she intentionally kicked the ball, I would call "Time, Dead Ball"....Batter/Runner is "OUT" on interference and then have a pow wow with the coach that if she did it again him & her would be ejected from the game.
Reset; no other runners. Batter has received ball 4, and is not in jeopardy, is awarded first base.

What play has the Batter-Runner interfered with, as required by the definition of interference? Until and unless the BR or another runner attempt to advance to an unawarded base, there is no rules basis to make that interference call.

You would lose that protest.
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 03:03pm
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Elaine (LadyBlue), is that you?
That was the first thought I had, but if it is she has a)moved from Georgia to the great state of North Carolina, and b)started a new account when she could have used her old one.
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Old Thu Mar 26, 2009, 03:54pm
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When I was first asked about this situation (this past weekend) I answered it with the following...

When the "kicking of the ball" happened I would of declared "dead ball", gave the BR first base on the base on balls and gave the offensive team a warning for USC. By killing the play, I figured it prevented the BR from trying to advance anywhere past 1B and hopefully prevented all hell breaking loose with coaches.

I was really thinking of changing my mind after BKJones and the others posts but I will stick with my call above. Not saying it's right especially with my only 2+ years of experience, Just MHO. Now if we add runners to this situation then we are talking a whole different animal.
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