Easiest Toss I've Ever Had

[fiasco]

Girls V last Friday night. Middle of the third quarter. My partner calls a foul, reports to the table, then T's up Team B head coach. (He said later the coach said to him "At least you're being consistent")

My partner goes to administer free throws while I have a chat with the coach.

"Coach, I just need to inform you that, by rule, you've lost your coaching box for the night."

"What's his deal? I was talking to my player, not him. So you're just going to let him T me up like that?"

"The call stands, coach. You'll have to have a seat."

"Your partner is an idiot."

Booooop. Bye bye coach. I take a few strides to the table to record the T and ejection.

He then proceeds to follow me to the table and tell me he's going to stand here and give me a piece of his mind for as long as possible before he leaves the gym.

Unfortunately, I ask at the table and game management is nowhere to be found, so I turn to the coach, who is still yelling.

"Coach, you have exactly three seconds to start moving toward the door before I consider ending this game with a forfeit by your team."

He finally shuts up and goes out the door.

After we're done administering free throws, I have the ball for the throw-in and we notice he's just outside the gym doors, trying to watch the game. We finally locate game management and they escort him out of the building.

I had a talk after the game with the athletic director and let him know we always need someone on hand and available should a situation like that arise.

Crazy quarter. Just a few minutes after that, my partner tagged a girl from the same time for giving me the "T" signal after a foul call on her. Visiting team was up by about 15 before all the shenanigans. Home team came back to tie it, but pooped away the game in the 4th quarter and ended up losing by 12.

Here's my question. Obviously after the second T he's gone, but would you have considered giving him a third for sitting there yelling after he's been ejected?

[rekent]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Here's my question. Obviously after the second T he's gone, but would you have considered giving him a third for sitting there yelling after he's been ejected?

I am by no means an expert on this one, and am in class away from my books, but depending on the length of time he stays or severity of what he says, couldn't it be a T for unsporting acts by disqualified personnel? Would certainly have to be some form of egregious act for me to do it.

I remember the "leaving the court in a timely fashion" thing is mentioned a lot by commentators in the NBA with regard to fines being issued following tosses, but I'm not sure if that is an actual rule or if there is something analogous for Fed.

[Adam]

You can, but I wouldn't. I'd do just as you did.

[Indianaref]

I think you did just fine, I would have done the same.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Girls V last Friday night. Middle of the third quarter. My partner calls a foul, reports to the table, then T's up Team B head coach. (He said later the coach said to him "At least you're being consistent")

...

Here's my question. Obviously after the second T he's gone, but would you have considered giving him a third for sitting there yelling after he's been ejected?

What a fiasco!

[icallfouls]

I really don't like it when a partner goes over and tells the coach they have lost the use of the coaches box. I do not have my books with me at the moment and I can't find any reference to it online being the appropriate mechanic.

The coaches know the rule. I would say it is likely the only rule they understand the best.

Even so, in my opinion, you went over to the coach and it only exacerbated the situation. You went to him, he had no place to go to avoid your comment on something he already knows. I think you made the situation worse in that moment.

There is nothing good by going over there. It looks like you are trying to coddle the coach after your partner made a call he disagreed with.

If he needs to be reminded, there is a better way to do it. He probably still needs a moment to collect himself.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I really don't like it when a partner goes over and tells the coach they have lost the use of the coaches box. I do not have my books with me at the moment and I can't find any reference to it online being the appropriate mechanic.

The coaches know the rule. I would say it is likely the only rule they understand the best.

Even so, in my opinion, you went over to the coach and it only exacerbated the situation. You went to him, he had no place to go to avoid your comment on something he already knows. I think you made the situation worse in that moment.

There is nothing good by going over there. It looks like you are trying to coddle the coach after your partner made a call he disagreed with.

If he needs to be reminded, there is a better way to do it. He probably still needs a moment to collect himself.

I agree and disagree with what you are saying. I think a non-calling official should go over to inform the coach that he/she has lost the coaching box and must remain seated. Some coaches mysteriously forget this rule when it applies to them. The part I don't like from the OP is everything after that. From a distance, it does give the appearance that the official is giving the coach a shoulder to cry on. In this particular situation, getting away from the coach after telling him about the coaches box would have either ended the conversation or made the second T a no-brainer.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I agree and disagree with what you are saying. I think a non-calling official should go over to inform the coach that he/she has lost the coaching box and must remain seated. Some coaches mysteriously forget this rule when it applies to them. The part I don't like from the OP is everything after that. From a distance, it does give the appearance that the official is giving the coach a shoulder to cry on. In this particular situation, getting away from the coach after telling him about the coaches box would have either ended the conversation or made the second T a no-brainer.

I HATE it when partners talk to coaches about anything other than "You've lost the box" when I give a technical. I don't even like it when partners stand there and talk to them after I stick one of their players. It definitely gives the appearance that he's trying to play "good cop" to your bad cop and it makes the calling official look bad.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I HATE it when partners talk to coaches about anything other than "You've lost the box" when I give a technical. I don't even like it when partners stand there and talk to them after I stick one of their players. It definitely gives the appearance that he's trying to play "good cop" to your bad cop and it makes the calling official look bad.

I work with a small set of partners and I'm fine with one of them doing whatever he deems necessary. I know, however, they wouldn't throw me under the bus.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Rich

I work with a small set of partners and I'm fine with one of them doing whatever he deems necessary. I know, however, they wouldn't throw me under the bus.

What if the opposing coach had a loud opinion about it and how it looks?

Can you tell me what good can come from this? Seriously, if a coach does something to earn a T, that coach has to live with his/her actions. Letting the coach know that he/she must remain seated is a courtesy and that is all I can think of that needs to be said at the time.

A loosely related question: if a coach was unhappy with a call or non-call, would you let them talk to you about it if they call a timeout?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Rich

I work with a small set of partners and I'm fine with one of them doing whatever he deems necessary. I know, however, they wouldn't throw me under the bus.

I can see how that would work out okay. I'm confident that most of the guys I work with would never throw me under the bus either, but there are a few every now and then I'm not sure about. If I'm the non-calling official, I don't stand near the coach because I don't want to be perceived as coddling him.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by Rich

I work with a small set of partners and I'm fine with one of them doing whatever he deems necessary. I know, however, they wouldn't throw me under the bus.

I agree with Rich. If It would have been my game I wouldn't have said anything to the coach until after the free throws to see if he was going to sit and comply. If he is still standing then I quickly go by him and say, "coaching box is gone!" That usually gets the hint across and you get he heck out of there.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I agree and disagree with what you are saying. I think a non-calling official should go over to inform the coach that he/she has lost the coaching box and must remain seated. Some coaches mysteriously forget this rule when it applies to them. The part I don't like from the OP is everything after that. From a distance, it does give the appearance that the official is giving the coach a shoulder to cry on. In this particular situation, getting away from the coach after telling him about the coaches box would have either ended the conversation or made the second T a no-brainer.

Calling his partner an idiot is worthy, don't get me wrong.

So what if he mysteriously forgets, it could be that the coach thinks he is responding to good play by his team after the moment of the T has passed. When the officials are moving by, just calmly remind the coach. Most of the time they will comply because they have had a chance to move on. This was not the case. The non-calling official is exerting control at a time when it is not necessary.

Fisaco did not have to inform the coach of the rule - which I have no doubt is known. Even so, all he had to do was deliver the message and move on. The coach made another comment and asked a question - it was a question designed to divide the crew or in the hopes that the coach could find someone to trust. Instead Fiasco inadvertently kept the fire burning. Fiasco thought he would have the last word and the coach would simply comply, when it might have been better to let the coach have the last word.

He would never have been in position to hear the coach say his partner was a idiot if he stayed away. If you still feel like it is something that needs to be said, wait until after the 2nd FT, or when the ball is about to be inbounded. The coach likely will be ready to move on by then.

I agree with the earlier post - "What a fiasco"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

What if the opposing coach had a loud opinion about it and how it looks?

Can you tell me what good can come from this? Seriously, if a coach does something to earn a T, that coach has to live with his/her actions. Letting the coach know that he/she must remain seated is a courtesy and that is all I can think of that needs to be said at the time.

A loosely related question: if a coach was unhappy with a call or non-call, would you let them talk to you about it if they call a timeout?

I'm not saying I'd hang around and have a conversation. I'm just saying if my partner spent a few seconds, I wouldn't be bothered by it.

I had experience in this area this weekend -- my partner (same official) whacked an assistant coach both Friday night and Saturday afternoon. Both times I administered the free throws while he went division line opposite (2-person). Before he administered the throw-in, I simply said, "You need to have a seat." They wanted to engage me, but I was too busy showing them my back.

To answer your question: I'd probably answer a question if they had one on the timeout (and only if it was a quick one that wasn't aggressively asked), but if they started arguing or making statements, I'd probably be walking away.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Calling his partner an idiot is worthy, don't get me wrong.

Fisaco did not have to inform the coach of the rule - which I have no doubt is known. Even so, all he had to do was deliver the message and move on. The coach made another comment and asked a question - that did not need to be answered. Fiasco put all the attention on himself and the coach. Fiasco had to have the last word, when it might have been better to let the coach have the last word.

He would never have been in position to hear the coach say his partner was a idiot.

I agree with the earlier post - "What a fiasco"

So you are saying you and I agree then?