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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:17pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Like I said, unless you're willing to call the violation for leaving the court, I don't think you can say B1 has left the playing court. IOW, you either have a defensive violation (thus an immediate dead ball), or a pc.
How can you call a player control on a player when the defensive player is not legally on the court?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:19pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
How can you call a player control on a player when the defensive player is not legally on the court?
That's my point. If he's left the court, it's a violation, no foul either way. If he hasn't left the court, and he's not moving, it'd either pc or nothing.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:43pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
How did he get off of the court if he didn't leave?
I'm not sure what "off of the court" means. He hasn't left the court because he's still mostly on the court, but he is OOB by rule.

Now let's explore the absurdities of your position. You're either calling the LTC violation every time a player has a toenail on the boundary, or you're calling it just when you want to avoid calling a PC foul. Do I have that right?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
I'm not sure what "off of the court" means. He hasn't left the court because he's still mostly on the court, but he is OOB by rule.

Now let's explore the absurdities of your position. You're either calling the LTC violation every time a player has a toenail on the boundary, or you're calling it just when you want to avoid calling a PC foul. Do I have that right?
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:10pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...
So it would be a LTC violation?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...
Exactly. The rule simply says a player can't have LGP. It says nothing about the spot itself being illegal.

To me, the absurd position is the one that insists 4-37-3 doesn't apply because B1 isn't on the "playing court" but B1 hasn't violated because he somehow hasn't left the court.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:21pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
That's my point. If he's left the court, it's a violation, no foul either way. If he hasn't left the court, and he's not moving, it'd either pc or nothing.
When did you notice he (B1) left the court, before or after the contact?

There's contact, you're going to call the block.

You call leaving the court when someone gains an advantage, as in receiving a pass for a shot or a drive to the basket.

JMO.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:26pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...
It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:29pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
The rule says B1 is entitled to his spot on the court. He's either entitled to this spot, or he's not on the court. IMO, if one foot on the line isn't enough to call the violation for leaving the court, then a stationary B1 isn't liable for the contact.
Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:32pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.
And you are calling a foul depending on whether there was a violation.

So is that not also absurd?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:33pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.
No, what's absurd is your interpretation of my position.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:36pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.
So a player is standing there talking to his coach, and the ball handler lowers his shoulder and drills that player square in the back...and you are calling a block because the defender -who never even saw the ball handler coming at him - had his foot on the sideline???

Good luck selling THAT one.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:36pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.
'Coach, he's entitled to his spot.'

Easy sell.

Again, he's either on the court, or he left it. I'm done for now.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:38pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
So a player is standing there talking to his coach, and the ball handler lowers his shoulder and drills that player square in the back...and you are calling a block because the defender -who never even saw the ball handler coming at him - had his foot on the sideline???

Good luck selling THAT one.
Is that player legally on the court?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:40pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Is that player legally on the court?
Was that player guarding anyone and thus needing to fit that part of the definition of LGP?
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