Substitution on throw in position

[derwil]

Had this one last night:

Foul on Team A on a drive to B1 just outside the three point line. I have the whistle from T and indicate ball to the sideline. We were in Cadillac so I have throw-in responsibilities. After reporting foul, A2 subs in for A1 and as I turn to look at the player going out and to ID where the ball is when I notice U2 lining everyone up for a baseline throw in. I get U2's attention and tell him we're on the sideline and he throws the ball to me. Coach A then tells me that he subbed in A2 for the express purpose of a baseline throw in and now that it's a sideline throw in, he wants A1 back in the game.

No time ran off the clock so I didn't allow a re-sub. His subsequent play resulted in a layup so he was happy, but he could have really made a stink about it.

Would you have allowed the re-sub?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by derwil

Would you have allowed the re-sub?

What might or might not be allowed must verified by what is in 3-3.

Only catch is that a sub must report to the table in time, and, according to 3-3-4, the player he took out must "sit a tick." The other guy who went in doesn't have to "play a tick."

Therefore, when you admit that, "No time ran off the clock so I didn't allow a re-sub" appears to be half-right.

[maven]

"By the book" answer: Freddy gave it. His sub does not have to play, but the guy he replaced cannot return at this point.

"Game management" answer: if coach made the substitution based on misleading info from the officials, the spirit of fairness would permit him to withdraw the substitution (esp. at lower levels).

I might go "by the book" for varsity and "game management" at any lower level.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by maven

...I might would advise you go "by the book" for varsity...

There is no might about this.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There is no might about this.

Agreed. And in the future, the OP might consider making sure his partners know the throw-in spot before he goes and reports to the table, so there is no confusion in the first place.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Agreed. And in the future, the OP might consider making sure his partners know the throw-in spot before he goes and reports to the table, so there is no confusion in the first place.

Yep, and the coach might think to ask next time before making such a specialized substitution. Honestly, anything above middle school, and I'm going by the book here.
"Coach, he can come out, but *he* can't come back in yet.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by derwil

We were in Cadillac so I have throw-in responsibilities.

"Cadillac"?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

"Cadillac"?

I was confused about that as well. At first I thought he was in 2-man, but then he mentioned the U2. I haven't heard the term Cadillac used in 100 years, and never in 3-man. There's a lot about that whole scenario, as written, that seems "messy".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I was confused about that as well. At first I thought he was in 2-man, but then he mentioned the U2. I haven't heard the term Cadillac used in 100 years, and never in 3-man. There's a lot about that whole scenario, as written, that seems "messy".

From the very first time I stepped on the court for a 3-man crew the Cadillac position refers to the Lead and Trail being tableside and the Center opposite table. I've never known any other definition.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

From the very time I step on the court for a 3-man crew the Cadillac position refers to the Lead and Trail being tableside and the Center opposite table. I've never known any other definition.

I have never heard it used re 3. Only in two, meaning both officials on their respective left side of the court.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Meaning both officials on their respective left side of the court.

As God intended it (I'm assuming that everybody knows that God drives a Cadillac, specifically, a blue 1975 Coupe de Ville).

[derwil]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

From the very first time I stepped on the court for a 3-man crew the Cadillac position refers to the Lead and Trail being tableside and the Center opposite table. I've never known any other definition.

That's what I'm referring to - Lead and Trail are table side. Possibly a regional description that may have caused some confusion, and for that I apologize.

[JugglingReferee]

A coach need not be quality control for officials' intra-communication errors.

Having certain players perform specialized tasks is a completely valid coaching strategy, and should be expected at higher levels.

I'm going to let A1 back in.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by derwil

Had this one last night:

Foul on Team A on a drive to B1 just outside the three point line. I have the whistle from T and indicate ball to the sideline.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

A coach need not be quality control for officials' intra-communication errors.

Having certain players perform specialized tasks is a completely valid coaching strategy, and should be expected at higher levels.

I'm going to let A1 back in.

However, the calling official clearly indicated that the ensuing throw-in would be on the sideline immediately following the foul, so the coach should be expected to see that and make his strategy decisions based upon it.

[tomegun]

Mississippi used the "Cadillac" positioning for three-man as recently as the 2006-2007 season. I was thoroughly confused by this during my first scrimmage. Thankfully, the powers that be saw the light the next season.