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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 02:47pm
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Basketball Fight

Saw this on Facebook...



How would you handle if you're the lead or center/slot? In the aftermath, how would you deal out punishment?
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 03:08pm
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Both the original two EJ for fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench and fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench but not fighting.

Two indirects to the red head coach.

4 FTs and the ball for white (I didn't see anyone in White leave the bench, and I assume all the others were either head coaches breaking up the fight, or "security").
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 04:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Both the original two EJ for fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench and fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench but not fighting.

Two indirects to the red head coach.

4 FTs and the ball for white (I didn't see anyone in White leave the bench, and I assume all the others were either head coaches breaking up the fight, or "security").
I got a couple more than that.... there were two additional white players (#1 and #3) diving into the pile that appeared to be participating. Their arms were a bit too active for them to be considered to just be trying to separate the players.

At the first sign of trouble, I am RUNNING right to it trying to get them apart. That wouldn't have prevented the initial crap but it may have prevented the rest.

I think the C should have been more involved in breaking it up with the Trail standing back and keeping an eye on everything....the C was a lot closer and could get there faster.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Oct 17, 2012 at 04:37pm.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Both the original two EJ for fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench and fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench but not fighting.

Two indirects to the red head coach.

4 FTs and the ball for white (I didn't see anyone in White leave the bench, and I assume all the others were either head coaches breaking up the fight, or "security").

Agreed. 4 ejections, 4 FTs and the ball for white.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Both the original two EJ for fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench and fighting.

One red EJ for leaving the bench but not fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Agreed. 4 ejections, 4 FTs and the ball for white.
Just for the sake of discussion, are you immediately ejecting them from the gym? Or simple DQ to the bench? In high school, ejection is not mandated (I know that you guys already know that) and actually generally not preferred.

So I'm just throwing that out there for consideration.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:53pm
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In NFHS, for players, dq to the bench is all there is. There is no ejection from the gym.

Somebody will correct me if this is not the case.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:16pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In NFHS, for players, dq to the bench is all there is. There is no ejection from the gym.

Somebody will correct me if this is not the case.
There can be, but only if they continue to be a disruption, and they should be escorted by an adult.
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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:03pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In NFHS, for players, dq to the bench is all there is. There is no ejection from the gym.

Somebody will correct me if this is not the case.
Not initially. If they cause a further problem or incite more fighting or ill will or get a T, then they stay on the bench otherwise. And as stated if it comes to that conclusion, then they must only leave with an adult to the locker room, bus or where ever they must go to get away from the court.

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Old Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:21pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I got a couple more than that.... there were two additional white players (#1 and #3) diving into the pile that appeared to be participating. Their arms were a bit too active for them to be considered to just be trying to separate the players.
I agree if they appear to be participating rather than breaking up. That is all judgment and also something I really cannot tell on the video at that angle. It is obvious several non-participants or players come to the fight. But I would not have any problem if those players were disqualified as a result of what I am seeing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
At the first sign of trouble, I am RUNNING right to it trying to get them apart. That wouldn't have prevented the initial crap but it may have prevented the rest.

I think the C should have been more involved in breaking it up with the Trail standing back and keeping an eye on everything....the C was a lot closer and could get there faster.
This is the main reason you cannot fly down court after a made basket. There are players that clearly get into some kind of altercation and two officials are well out of the picture and probably no closer than half court. And I am sure that this did not just happen either that something was building up to the ultimate result and that was the fight.

Peace
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 06:42am
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They must only leave with an adult to the locker room, bus or where ever they must go to get away from the court.
Bed. No supper.
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:02am
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Just for the sake of discussion, are you immediately ejecting them from the gym? Or simple DQ to the bench? In high school, ejection is not mandated (I know that you guys already know that) and actually generally not preferred.

So I'm just throwing that out there for consideration.
Sorry, I meant DQ, not EJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
This is the main reason you cannot fly down court after a made basket. There are players that clearly get into some kind of altercation and two officials are well out of the picture and probably no closer than half court. And I am sure that this did not just happen either that something was building up to the ultimate result and that was the fight.

Peace
While I agree, I note that some of this might have been caused by a late rotation. Old T didn't see it, and left. Old C saw it, knew he was now L and left.

Plus, most of the other players had started down court, and only the two antoganists were left (as I recall the video).
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:12am
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Maybe I am seeing this wrong but going frame by frame I see the following occur.

-Initial Participants from Red and White get DQ for fighting penalties cancel each other so no shots.

- 1 red comes off the bench and gets involved in the fight, DQ and T for leaving bench. So far 2 shots for White.

- 2nd red player starts to run from her bench but thinks better and returns.

- 1 white player on the floor jumps in as 3rd in and participates in the fight. DQ for fighting. Cancels and shots from red's second DQ.
Still only 2 shots for white.

- All others are breaking players apart, they are coaches or security from the looks of it. Any other players involved are not fighting.
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I note that some of this might have been caused by a late rotation.
Yes sir, I think thats a rotation that we want to back out of. The shot was in progress & the L wasnt even a 3rd of the way across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Old T didn't see it, and left. Old C saw it, knew he was now L and left.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when we rotate on the shot/drive, in addition to many other things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I think the C should have been more involved in breaking it up with the Trail standing back and keeping an eye on everything....the C was a lot closer and could get there faster.
Like bob pointed out, both Ts thought the other guy was the C.
For some reason, they both marked the attempt
They signaled the make at the same time & that tells me nobody had rebounding action.
The principles of dead ball officiating after the make & looking back in transition were not followed.

IMO the L is way too laid back on this one!! The players chest bump at :8 then the defender throws a punch at :9 & the presence of the L isnt felt until :16 and all of the action AT the block.

Anytime theres an altercation or an ejected coach I like to go back a few plays to see how it all started. This is either a rivalry or something was said or done earlier. I hate to be a Monday morning QB but this has got to be shut down sooner. I wonder what the assignor thought???
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post

At the first sign of trouble, I am RUNNING right to it trying to get them apart. That wouldn't have prevented the initial crap but it may have prevented the rest.

I think the C should have been more involved in breaking it up with the Trail standing back and keeping an eye on everything....the C was a lot closer and could get there faster.
I thought that we were not supposed to touch the players during a fight? Should we physically seperate them or mearly try to get between them or ?
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Old Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
Try to get between them?
Accepted procedure around here (above).
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