Sub question

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So we beckon these substitutes during a timeout, but not during an intermission?

Mechanically, this does make some sense. In a Connecticut two person game, during a timeout there is an official on the division line, either on the table side jump ball circle, or on the far side jump ball circle, who is obviously there to beckon substitutes. During intermissions, the official on the division line is all the way over on the far side sideline.

If they report, and are not beckoned, as in an intermission, where all players are bench personnel, has there been substitution, or has there been no substitution?

I don't beckon players in during timeout and I cannot think of a single time I have seen anyone do such a thing. That sounds like a local thing, but not something I have ever seen done even watching a game.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jritchie

Courtesy to the shooter! No citation that I have found, but if I'm going to send the players to the bench area because time has expired, while we shoot the FT's, could we call them all bench personnel now and not have to bring in subs?

Why are you sending them to their bench area?

The only thing you should be doing is not allowing them to line up in lane spaces....ensuring they are above the FT line extended and outside the 3-point arc like any FT where there will be no rebound. If they want to retreat to the part of the court near their bench while their other team members remain seated on the bench, fine. But, we shouldn't send them there.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So we beckon these substitutes during a timeout, but not during an intermission?

Mechanically, this does make some sense. In a Connecticut two person game, during a timeout there is an official on the division line, either on the table side jump ball circle, or on the far side jump ball circle, who is obviously there to beckon substitutes. During intermissions, the official on the division line is all the way over on the far side sideline.
...

I thought he was there to so he could easily give the "first horn" warning to each bench.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I thought he was there to so he could easily give the "first horn" warning to each bench.

I can't speak to NFHS mechanics, but IAABO mechanics have had us at these spots before the oral, and visual, "first horn" warning, by the officials, was implemented. Besides beckoning in substitutes, we're also at these spots to be available to answer any questions from the table.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why are you sending them to their bench area?The only thing you should be doing is not allowing them to line up in lane spaces....ensuring they are above the FT line extended and outside the 3-point arc like any FT where there will be no rebound. If they want to retreat to the part of the court near their bench while their other team members remain seated on the bench, fine. But, we shouldn't send them there.

Just do it to keep the players mainly away from each other while we are shooting free throws, so no extra curricular stuff can go on or trash talking, etc... That is where they are going after the free throws anyways because of time expiring, so that is where I send them for pre-cautionary measures.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I thought he was there to so he could easily give the "first horn" warning to each bench.

According to IAABO mechanics (not necessarily NFHS mechanics), the official on the division line only gives the oral, and visual, "first horn" warning to one bench, not each bench, the bench farthest away from his partner, who is standing somewhere on a sideline, endline, or the free throw line.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jritchie

Just do it to keep the players mainly away from each other while we are shooting free throws, so no extra curricular stuff can go on or trash talking, etc... That is where they are going after the free throws anyways because of time expiring, so that is where I send them for pre-cautionary measures.

And if they don't, you will do exactly what?

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And if they don't, you will do exactly what?

There coaches are always in a hurry to try and talk to them anyways, don't really have to worry about it, but if one or two hangs around and watches the FT, I just usually keep an eye on them too and make sure nothing stupid happens like we all do. But most of the time there coach is already in their ears so I don't have to worry about it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jritchie

There coaches are always in a hurry to try and talk to them anyways, don't really have to worry about it, but if one or two hangs around and watches the FT, I just usually keep an eye on them too and make sure nothing stupid happens like we all do. But most of the time there coach is already in their ears so I don't have to worry about it.

Don't bother asking them to do something you have no rule basis to ask. Just watch them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jritchie

There coaches are always in a hurry to try and talk to them anyways, don't really have to worry about it, but if one or two hangs around and watches the FT, I just usually keep an eye on them too and make sure nothing stupid happens like we all do. But most of the time there coach is already in their ears so I don't have to worry about it.

This is no differnet than any other FT, you do not have to make a big deal out of this. And you certainly do not need to tell them to do something that is not rules based.

Peacd

[APG]

I'd treat this like what happens during technical fouls. If all the players want to go to halfcourt, I'm not going to stop them, but I won't tell them to go there either. Same with at the end of the game with no time left...if players want to go to their bench, or their coach's want their players there, I won't fight it as long as players are above the FT line extended and outside the 3 point line. Besides, that I won't direct them to do anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

I'd treat this like what happens during technical fouls. If all the players want to go to halfcourt, I'm not going to stop them, but I won't tell them to go there either. Same with at the end of the game with no time left...if players want to go to their bench, or their coach's want their players there, I won't fight it as long as players are above the FT line extended and outside the 3 point line. Besides, that I won't direct them to do anything.

+1

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by jritchie

don't we usually send them to their bench area when time expires while we are shooting free throws? So why should we allow a sub?

What about time expiring at the end of the game where FT's are going to be shot? We going to allow a time out to ice shooter? How many TO's can they call? to "ice the shooter"

What about in the case of technical foul shots at the end of the game. Can't any legal player (bench or on the court) take those shots?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

What about in the case of technical foul shots at the end of the game. Can't any legal player (bench or on the court) take those shots?

Yes, any legal player or bench player can shoot FTs at any other time. For example if there are 6 TF shots, 6 different players can take them.

Peace