"They can't do that!"

[Camron Rust]

The Giants and their coach are wrong. The game was within one score. As long as their is time on the clock, the Bucs have every right to try to win the game...that is why they play it. One botched snap and the game changes.

If the score difference was 9 or more (two scores), I'd agree with the Giants and the Bucs would have probably conceded, but it wasn't.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When I see a fumble one of these this will be a first for me personally. The Miracle in the Meadowlands was a play being run in full and fumbled, not the practice for kneeling down. Totally different situations. I agree with the Giants coach.

Peace

Kind of different, but not totally. Remember that the play before this was a typical kneel. The defense played it like a real play, so NYG got pissed off and ran a regular handoff - and we all know what happened there.

It was obvious watching the game that the defense was coming. The O Line not defending was frankly stupid. Would anyone be calling this Bush if Eli was so surprised he did end up fumbling?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm looking for a parallel here.

If you saw the end of the Giants/Bucs NFL game yesterday, you saw the Giants in a "victory formation," but the Bucs opted to pound the line and go for the ball. The Giants were pretty upset about that, even though it's completely within the rules, it's something you "just don't do," according to Coach Coughlin.

(Personally, I think Coughlin needs to review Herm Edwards' famous line.)

Does anyone have an experience along this line where a coach thought the opposing team was doing something wrong, yet it was well within the rules, and possibly innovative?

I recently heard a great approach to a blow out. It was a football game.

Team B was winning handily and showed no signs of letting down. The coach at half-time went to the Team A coach and gave him a copy of the 2nd-half plays he'd be running. B then told A that he was putting his 2nd stringers in, along with players in "new" positions, but they would not play down - they were going to play hard and learn how to play football.

I say you play to win the game, and to develop players, especially at the pro level. With the money they're making, too bad about their feelings.

The above solution by the A coach was brilliant.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Kind of different, but not totally. Remember that the play before this was a typical kneel. The defense played it like a real play, so NYG got pissed off and ran a regular handoff - and we all know what happened there.

It was obvious watching the game that the defense was coming. The O Line not defending was frankly stupid. Would anyone be calling this Bush if Eli was so surprised he did end up fumbling?

The kneel down as we know it did not start to take place until after that game. Basically the QB snapped the ball and would fall down. That is very different than what has happen thousands of times since at all levels. What they did was legal, but it was unnecessary. If the other team has the ball and they are in that formation, the game is basically over.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The kneel down as we know it did not start to take place until after that game. Basically the QB snapped the ball and would fall down. That is very different than what has happen thousands of times since at all levels. What they did was legal, but it was unnecessary. If the other team has the ball and they are in that formation, the game is basically over.

Peace

Then why play the last 30 seconds (or whatever was left)? Why not just stop the game right there? Like I asked before - why even have Tampa's defense on the field?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Then why play the last 30 seconds (or whatever was left)? Why not just stop the game right there? Like I asked before - why even have Tampa's defense on the field?

Like APG said as it relates to basketball, do we end the game with 20 seconds left when teams clearly have given up? No, so why do it in this case? Isn't the same thing happening? Could we not make the same case in basketball games? After all this does not happen in just 20 point blowouts, I have seen it when 5 or 10 points and a lot can happen in 20 seconds right?

Peace

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Does anyone have an experience along this line where a coach thought the opposing team was doing something wrong, yet it was well within the rules, and possibly innovative?

Scorekeeper erroneously records five fouls on star visiting guard instead of four. Due to offset score table, the head coach's box for visiting team is about 6" from the end of the table, so the visiting coach was right there next to the R when he was trying to straighten out the whole mess with the scorer. Not really getting involved, just right there. The home coach, meanwhile, was putting up a huge fuss that we allowed the opposing coach to be right there at the table while he had to stay in his box way down there pret'neer in a different zip code.
Legal, but protested.
Turned out okay, and, to me anyway, it's just desserts for a coach whose school gets those stupid bleachers that require the scorer's table not to be located at midcourt.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So you basically think that Tampa should have just quit? Why even put their defense out on the field then? As a football coach, I coach my players to play hard every down. When we take a knee, our linemen still fire off the ball, and our backs are ready to pick someone up coming off the end, and my QB takes a knee and then pops up and backs out of there...no reason to expect a defense to just stand there and do nothing.

My whistle is about as quick as it can get on a victory formation play. If the center-to-QB snap is clean, I blow it dead as soon as the knee starts for the ground.

I couldn't care less how anyone "coaches" this.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

My whistle is about as quick as it can get on a victory formation play. If the center-to-QB snap is clean, I blow it dead as soon as the knee starts for the ground.

I couldn't care less how anyone "coaches" this.

I see...so basically you cheat and kill a play before it is over.

Nice.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I see...so basically you cheat and kill a play before it is over.

Nice.

Nope, the QB is giving himself up and he has possession of the football. That's good enough for me. If he fumbles the snap, obviously it's a different story.

Local practice is that we are told the QB is taking a knee and we pinch in a bit and protect against anything stupid. We tell the defense that the offense is taking a knee, don't do anything stupid.

I've never seen anything even at the HS level like what the Bucs tried yesterday.

Why is it that coaches immediately go to calling officials "cheaters" and impugn our integrity. You'd think an official would know better than to do that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why is it that coaches immediately go to calling officials "cheaters" and impugn our integrity. You'd think an official would know better than to do that.

Agreed. Actually rather said that Rocky is an official.

Again we do a lot of things where philosophy applies to any rule and that does not change across other sports.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Like APG said as it relates to basketball, do we end the game with 20 seconds left when teams clearly have given up? No, so why do it in this case? Isn't the same thing happening? Could we not make the same case in basketball games? After all this does not happen in just 20 point blowouts, I have seen it when 5 or 10 points and a lot can happen in 20 seconds right?

Peace

Uhmmmm, I think you just made my point for me.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Nope, the QB is giving himself up and he has possession of the football. That's good enough for me. If he fumbles the snap, obviously it's a different story.

Local practice is that we are told the QB is taking a knee and we pinch in a bit and protect against anything stupid. We tell the defense that the offense is taking a knee, don't do anything stupid.

I've never seen anything even at the HS level like what the Bucs tried yesterday.

Why is it that coaches immediately go to calling officials "cheaters" and impugn our integrity. You'd think an official would know better than to do that.

Because you said that you would kill a play before it is over - as soon as the QB's knee STARTS toward the ground. You going to do that for everyone?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Because you said that you would kill a play before it is over - as soon as the QB's knee STARTS toward the ground. You going to do that for everyone?

For every QB that informs me he's going to take a knee, absolutely.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Agreed. Actually rather said that Rocky is an official.

Again we do a lot of things where philosophy applies to any rule and that does not change across other sports.

Peace

Seemed clear to me that Rocky was making a rhetorical point, not accusing Rich of cheating.