Water on the court...

[tref]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

In your first case, there is nothing that I can recall that says the player can't have a drink while free throws are being attempted. However, you could assess a Tech for delay for spilling water on the court since it was not after a time out.

Rule reference please?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by tref

Rule reference please?

The second situation is a 4-47 DoG situation, for which 10-1-5 prescribes the penalty.

The first situation shouldn't be confused with the precise prerequisites for a 4-47 DoG situation, methinks --sorry BMac . The fact that this did not occur after a timeout is significant.
The "water on the court" episode in the OP seems to fit best under 10-1-5, "and similar acts:". However, since it did not occur after a time-out, ala 4-47, no written warning is necessary for a team technical to be given, if indeed that is what best suits the situation.

That 4-47 DoG and its oft-confused 4-38 ROP is detailed in an article found here (written for an association rules meeting), about which you are invited to make constructive comment:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...TcxOGEyYmQ3ODk

[tref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Best not to allow this to be confused with the precise prerequisites for a 4-47 situation, methinks.
The "water on the court" esisode in the given situation seems to fit best under 10-1-5, "and similar acts:". However, since it did not occur after a time-out, ala 4-47, no written warning is necessary for a team technical to be given, if indeed that is what best suits the situation.

IDK Freddy, they get a pass in my games. Just wipe it up, coach.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by tref

IDK Freddy, they get a pass in my games. Just wipe it up, coach.

I guess the original question wasn't "would you pass on this?", but "where is it in the rulebook?"

Does "IDK" stand for "I Don't Know"?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I guess the original question wasn't "would you pass on this?", but "where is it in the rulebook?"

Does "IDK" stands for "I Don't Know"?

Yesssir & I'm not sure the intent & purpose of the rule quite fits this situation.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by tref

Yesssir & I'm not sure the intent & purpose of the rule quite fits this situation.

Cocky Response which I Won't Give: Well, I do know and am sure the intent & purpose of the rule fits this situation.

More Tactful and Reasonable Response: I guess it seems wise to always know what the rule is so as to be fully aware of what one is passing on when making a judicious decision to do so, which is sometimes fits the situation best.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Cocky Response which I Won't Give: Well, I do know and am sure the intent & purpose of the rule fits this situation.

More Tactful and Reasonable Response: I guess it seems wise to always know what the rule is so as to be fully aware of what one is passing on when making a judicious decision to do so, which is sometimes fits the situation best.

Okay, I guess I'll rule that way when I see a rule or caseplay that says, when a player spills water on the floor during a FT the officials shall assess a T.

Until then, wipe it up coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

IDK Freddy, they get a pass in my games. Just wipe it up, coach.

I think Freddy is right. You don't need to use a warning. But I would give him one informal warning. Players are expected to drink during time outs. If they want to drink during play, they should be more careful about spilling.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by tref

Rule reference please?

10-1-5

ART. 5

Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts:

b. Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play. See 7-5-1 and 8-1-2 for the resumption-of-play procedure to use after a time-out or the intermission between quarters. The procedure is used prior to charging a technical foul in these specific situations.

f. Not having the court ready for play following any time-out after any team warning for delay.

In the OP, the scenario was that the player spilled water "everywhere". If there's water on the court and the game is being delayed to clean it up, it would fall under 5b. Whether to enforce it or not is each crew's call to make.

[Multiple Sports]

Years ago (90's) Larry Rose called a technical foul in the ACC tourney for water on the floor and Fred Barakat (super of ACC) said he was wrong....

It was coming out of a TO and it took about 2 minutes to dry floor......

BNR - Do you remember this ?????? The game was NC State vs. ????

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Years ago (90's) Larry Rose called a technical foul in the ACC tourney for water on the floor and Fred Barakat (super of ACC) said he was wrong....

It was coming out of a TO and it took about 2 minutes to dry floor......

BNR - Do you remember this ?????? The game was NC State vs. ????

Yep, I remember the situation. Larry Rose was right by rule but still disciplined by Mr. Barakat.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

10-1-5

ART. 5

Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts:

b. Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play. See 7-5-1 and 8-1-2 for the resumption-of-play procedure to use after a time-out or the intermission between quarters. The procedure is used prior to charging a technical foul in these specific situations.

f. Not having the court ready for play following any time-out after any team warning for delay.

In the OP, the scenario was that the player spilled water "everywhere". If there's water on the court and the game is being delayed to clean it up, it would fall under 5b. Whether to enforce it or not is each crew's call to make.

The ball was already live (in the OP)....it was "during" a FT. So, if the player misses, it is nothing, but if they make it creating a dead ball it becomes a T since a new live ball is being delayed???? I don't think so. The result should be the same regardless of the status of the ball.

The water spillage rule that has been referenced is for the resumption of play following a timeout.

The real question, ruleswise, is not whether it is delaying the game but whether the water bottle/cup is legal to be on the court whether it spills or not. If it is not legal, the player is not legally equipped, send them off the court. Would you let them play the game while walking around with an empty water bottle? If it is legal, you don't have any rule to enforce even if it happens to spill.

I believe that, technically, the a cup or bottle on the court is illegal equipment. Not allowed. The team can take a timeout, substitute, or wait until the end of the period.

[Adam]

I understand your point, Camron, but would you really prevent a player from taking a quick swig of water at his bench during a free throw? Assuming, of course, there haven't been any issues up to that point.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I understand your point, Camron, but would you really prevent a player from taking a quick swig of water at his bench during a free throw? Assuming, of course, there haven't been any issues up to that point.

Probably not....but I'm sure not issuing a T if they spill it unless there are additional circumstances.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Probably not....but I'm sure not issuing a T if they spill it unless there are additional circumstances.

I agree. The rule is there if we need it, but I can't imagine not being able to fix it before needing the T.