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without question, rules knowledge is absolutely essential to officiate basketball, but so is knowing how and when to apply those rules. i dont think it would help one's career to nitpick things as described in this thread.
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definitions
As Nevadaref said, "a player cannot have player control by merely touching (batting, slapping or tapping) a pass." CB 4.15 COMMENT seems to cover this play. Since it was mentioned the ball was never caught then the pass must have been batted or allowed to rebound off the hand which does not constitute player control, therefore no violation.
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Agreed. In this case the initial bat does not define a dribble until it strikes the floor and subsequently remains in control of the player making the steal. I see this as totally different than the player who has ended a dribble, then pushes the ball toward the floor, intending to start another, even if it strikes something else instead.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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If anything, it seems to me the OP is even more likely a violation than the second dribble scenario. One could argue that the second dribble isn't judged a dribble until the offensive player hits it again; but one cannot argue that player control starts at any point after the dribble begins. So, even if you don't judge it a dribble until it hits the floor and returns to the dribbler; it seems pretty clear that once the dribble does, player control will have started at the bat.
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Isn't this exactly what happens in the OP?
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Not necessarily. Think of the whether you'd consider the first bounce a dribble if she proceeded to pick it up after one bounce. If not, then you're right. If yes, then PC starts on the bat.
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Let me add a little twist
Team A has the ball. Team B bats the ball loose. The ball is being pin-balled. B1 bats the ball in the similar manner from the original post. The ball hits the ground and B1 gets fouled.
If Team B is in the bonus, does B1 shoot free throws? Same question. When does Team/Player control start? I had that play occur in my game last year. I immediately asked the Official that blew the whistle if B1 had control? His response was, "She got fouled, we are shooting free throws." I don't think he had a clue why I asked him the question. Also, he never wanted to discuss the play after the game ended. I don't think PC was established in either situation. |
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Nobody had both feet off the floor in the discussion at hand.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Often a single bat followed by a catch does not equal a dribble even when it was a pass from a teammate. I don't think I've ever seen a single bat on a steal which I considered control.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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No Fooling Around Here ...
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4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball. 4-12-2-A: A team is in control of the ball: When a player of the team is in control.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jul 19, 2012 at 07:27pm. |
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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We have a player establishing player and team control with a dribble with one foot in the FC, one foot in the air, and the ball in the BC (first bounce on the division line). So I see this as team control being established with the ball not having FC status, due (in the spirit of if not in the fact of) the three points rule.
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