Carry, or No Call?

[Adam]

A1 dribbling, commits a clear carry as she tries to go around B1.

As I blow the whistle, B1 slaps the ball before it hits the ground following the ball coming to rest in A1's hand.

The ball has come to rest, and A1 has brought her hand around top again and begun pushing it to the floor. I thought my whistle was quick, but wanted to bring the play here for the good of the cause.

[Camron Rust]

Interesting. But if you break it down, it is really just the oft ask question..."when does a dribble become a dribble?"

Fundamentally, the carry is really either an illegal dribble or a travel. For several years, that was all we had as a carry was not defined in the rule book. Either the player ended the dribble by catching the ball and started another dribble or has moved the feet while holding the ball.

So, would you have called a travel with any variation on this play, probably not.

That leaves illegal dribble. Did they start a new dribble after ending the first? Does releasing the ball constitute the start of a dribble? I think it does. Thus, I think they started a new dribble and violated.

It is just that sometimes, when it is ambiguous, we wait to see what happens next to declare it a dribble. In this case, I think it is fine to have called the violation. The fact that he dribble was intercepted by the defense doesn't make it something other than dribble.

[BillyMac]

Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

????

Where was the myth in my post?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Where was the myth in my post?

No myth, just highlighting Camron Rust's statement, "Fundamentally, the carry is really either an illegal dribble or a travel."

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A1 dribbling, commits a clear carry as she tries to go around B1. (This happened)
As I blow the whistle(so you did this), B1 slaps the ball before it hits the ground following the ball coming to rest in A1's hand.(Then, after the violation which was why you sounded the whistle, this happened).
The ball has come to rest, and A1 has brought her hand around top again and begun pushing it to the floor. I thought my whistle was quick, but wanted to bring the play here for the good of the cause.

I think you may be making more of this than needs to be.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I think you may be making more of this than needs to be.

Maybe, but Camron's response is interesting, in that I was firmly in the "it's not a dribble until it hits his hand again" camp. Yet this particular play seemed obvious to me.

Besides, it's summer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, but Camron's response is interesting, in that I was firmly in the "it's not a dribble until it hits his hand again" camp. Yet this particular play seemed obvious to me.

Besides, it's summer.

To me it's just a summer lesson in not being too quick with your whistle. If it were a camp and B1 ended up with ball you would be getting a speech from an observor about the benefits of a patient whistle.

[Toren]

I'm picturing A1 "about" to committ a carry as their hand is underneath the ball and they are "about" to continue their dribble, but B1 deflects the ball before the dribble hits the ground.

Is this correct?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Toren

I'm picturing A1 "about" to committ a carry as their hand is underneath the ball and they are "about" to continue their dribble, but B1 deflects the ball before the dribble hits the ground.

Is this correct?

No, her hand went under the ball, but had come back around to the top and she'd start the push downward when B1 clipped it.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A1 dribbling, commits a clear carry as she tries to go around B1.

As I blow the whistle, B1 slaps the ball before it hits the ground following the ball coming to rest in A1's hand.

The ball has come to rest, and A1 has brought her hand around top again and begun pushing it to the floor. I thought my whistle was quick, but wanted to bring the play here for the good of the cause.

So...the ball had left the dribbler's hand? If that's the case the violation took place before the ball was touched by the defender.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So...the ball had left the dribbler's hand? If that's the case the violation took place before the ball was touched by th defender.

No, the ball had not left. She had begun the downward thrust, but the ball was still in contact with the hand.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, the ball had not left. She had begun the downward thrust, but the ball was still in contact with the hand.

It was still in contact with the hand while the touch by the defender occurred, then released, then you had a whistle?

So, in your judgment, the touch had no effect on the release, correct?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, the ball had not left. She had begun the downward thrust, but the ball was still in contact with the hand.

In that case, I think you may have jumped the gun a bit.

I don't think it is a dribble until it is released (if not even later). Why? The pivot foot restrictions as they relate to the dribble are relative to the release of the ball to "start" a dribble.

What if she had, somehow, caught the ball before it was clear from the hand (perhaps scooping it back to her self to catch it)? Ignoring the carry rule, would you have called that an illegal dribble? Doesn't that more resemble an awkward looking but fully legal way to end the dribble.

A player can even toss the ball into the air and catch it and as long as they don't move, that isn't a dribble (illegal or legal) and it isn't a travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In that case, I think you may have jumped the gun a bit.

I agree.