Changing an incorrect call

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Erroneously counting a score is not a CE???

Really?

Might want to check out 2-10-1-e and 2.10.1.k

The error was in making an incorrect judgement call, not in counting the score. After you put the ball in play, you can't go back and decide it wasn't goaltending. That means it is not a CE.

A CE is calling goaltending, and incorrectly applying the score that is a result of the goaltending. You have the CE window to go back and fix the scoring part of the penalty, not to change the call itself.

Also, if before the ball is in play and after you've awarded the basket, you decide it was not goaltending, you NOW have a CE situation and can fix that until the CE window expires.

For a similar type of ruling, look up the case play that involves a throwin with 0.3 seconds on the clock going into halftime where the official counts the shot....the NFHS says this is not a correctable error. The result is an incorrectly counted score, but he error was in not recognizing that time expired before the shot was released, not in counting the score.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Also, if before the ball is in play and after you've awarded the basket, you decide it was not goaltending, you NOW have a CE situation and can fix that until the CE window expires.

Oh good God...that is exactly what tref had happen in the OP. So the rest of your post is simply more posturing.

In honor of JR - Lah me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh good God...that is exactly what tref had happen in the OP. So the rest of your post is simply more posturing.

In honor of JR - Lah me.

Huh???? What the heck are you talking about? I had no idea who said what several posts back. I don't reread the thread every time I visit the site.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Huh???? What the heck are you talking about? I had no idea who said what several posts back. I don't reread the thread every time I visit the site.

The entire thread is about a play where the official thought GT occurred and blew his whistle and counted the basket. He was asking if it was a CE.

You say "No, it's not" but then later post "but if this happens then it is."

Which is what tref originally asked about.

Is it all clearer now?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The entire thread is about a play where the official thought GT occurred and blew his whistle and counted the basket. He was asking if it was a CE.

You say "No, it's not" but then later post "but if this happens then it is."

Which is what tref originally asked about.

Is it all clearer now?

The POINT was that if the original situation was a CE, you'd have the typical CE correction window to decide you blew the goaltending call. You don't. It is NOT a CE. You have a much shorter time to decide the call was wrong. But once you no longer have GT and only the status of the basket remains, that part is a CE....and the points can be corrected in the normal CE window.

And he was asking about it, how is explaining why it is posturing?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The entire thread is about a play where the official thought GT occurred and blew his whistle and counted the basket. He was asking if it was a CE.

You say "No, it's not" but then later post "but if this happens then it is."

Which is what tref originally asked about.

Is it all clearer now?

It seems to me the only way this qualifies as a CE is the following:

1. Official whistles and reports defensive GT/BI and awards two points.
2. Partner approaches official and gives him more information.
3. Official informs everyone that the GT call was not correct, but forgets to take away that awarded score.

Now you have a CE that can be fixed during the CE time frame.

Otherwise, if the official doesn't change his call before the ball is put in play after the award, it's too late. It's not a CE.

[tref]

So all in all, bottom line is that it can be changed before the next live ball??

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

So all in all, bottom line is that it can be changed before the next live ball??

Yes.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It seems to me the only way this qualifies as a CE is the following:

1. Official whistles and reports defensive GT/BI and awards two points.
2. Partner approaches official and gives him more information.
3. Official informs everyone that the GT call was not correct, but forgets to take away that awarded score.

Now you have a CE that can be fixed during the CE time frame.

Otherwise, if the official doesn't change his call before the ball is put in play after the award, it's too late. It's not a CE.

So what are your thoughts about 2.10.1.k that say that erroneously awarding points due to BI is a CE and the timeframe for CE's does apply?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So what are your thoughts about 2.10.1.k that say that erroneously awarding points due to BI is a CE and the timeframe for CE's does apply?

In that case, the call was correct and unchanged, only the application of the penalty (awarding or canceling of the points) was incorrect....thus, it is a CE.....not the situation we have here where the call itself is what is in error.

This is no different than calling an infraction for OOB and then realizing after the other team has the ball that you had the wrong line (or called the wrong color)....too late to fix it.

Again, once an infraction is called, you only have until the ball is subsequently made live to declare it an IW, even if the penalty for the infraction may result in points awarded/canceled. The actual error was calling the infraction.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For a similar type of ruling, look up the case play that involves a throwin with 0.3 seconds on the clock going into halftime where the official counts the shot....the NFHS says this is not a correctable error.

I hate that interpretation.

(Help. I can't find the casebook play. Can someone please post it.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For a similar type of ruling, look up the case play that involves a throwin with 0.3 seconds on the clock going into halftime where the official counts the shot....the NFHS says this is not a correctable error. The result is an incorrectly counted score, but he error was in not recognizing that time expired before the shot was released, not in counting the score.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I hate that interpretation. Help. I can't find the casebook play. Can someone please post it.

2010 - 2011 NFHS Interpretations

SITUATION 1: Three-tenths of a second remain on the clock in the second quarter. A1’s throw-in is “caught” by A2, released on a try, and the officials count the basket. The coaches do not protest, the officials do not confer and all participants head to their respective locker rooms. Upon returning to the court with three minutes remaining in the intermission, the opposing coach asks the officials if the basket should have counted since the ball was clearly caught and released with three-tenths of a second on the clock. The officials realize their error at this point. RULING: The goal counts; this is not a correctable-error situation as described in Rule 2-10. (2-10; 5-2-5)

Thanks for finding this and posting this caseplay BillyMac. You are most helpful, and, by the way, you're quite handsome.