Changing an incorrect call

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And A.R. 24 is the same as the NFHS case play.

NCAA-M has the following note with 2-12-1:
Note: In order for this to be a correctable error, the official must have erred in counting or canceling a successful try for goal according to a rule (i.e., after basket interference or goaltending, incorrectly counting or failing to cancel a score or counting a three-point goal instead of a two-point goal). A correctable error does not involve an error in judgment.

So it appears the CE rule only applies for GT or BI if the official fails to properly award or cancel a score after making GT/BI call. So A1 shoots, B1 goaltends, official blows whistle for GT call but doesn't direct scorer to award 2 points.

Ok so its not a CE... could we go IW & make it right like the IC b/c play or is it one we have to eat like giving the ball to the wrong team & realizing it after the throw-in has ended??

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Ok so its not a CE... could we go IW & make it right like the IC b/c play or is it one we have to eat like giving the ball to the wrong team & realizing it after the throw-in has ended??

No, the fact that you erroneously counted the score does make it a CE. Fix it and move on.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

. Fix it and move on.

Ok thats all I'm looking for... we CAN fix it?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

I'm having trouble understanding how this scenario played out.

The Defender tried to block the shot but missed and the referee blew his whistle thinking it was a GT?

I certainly don't think you can use a CE for this type of error. CE's don't give us to ability to correct an incorrect violation.

I think you just have to eat this one. IW would apply.

What would there be to correct? (Assuming you haven't already counted it and moved on).

If the ball went in, it was an inadvertent whistle during a try, the try counts on its own.

If the ball didn't go in, there is nothing to correct. Nothing scored.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What would there be to correct? (Assuming you haven't already counted it and moved on).

If the ball went in, it was an inadvertent whistle during a try, the try counts on its own.

If the ball didn't go in, there is nothing to correct. Nothing scored.

Shot went up but missed, referee blows whistle, counts the basket with GT as his reason.

Partner tells him he didn't hit the ball and only the glass.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

Shot went up but missed, referee blows whistle, counts the basket with GT as his reason.

Partner tells him he didn't hit the ball and only the glass.

Correctable, but not a CE. And you must correct it before the ball is put back in play. Until you move on, ANY call you make is still fixable if you realize it is wrong.

[APG]

Originally Posted by tref

You have the situation correct... it was an attempted block off the glass after the ball already hit the glass (mens league with college & pro rules).

On the quick steal fastbreak (old L new T) I saw the ball hit the glass, less than a second later a 6'9" defender flies out of nowhere & beats the glass up. I thought he hit the ball too, obviously I was wrong.

If CEs "dont give us the ability to correct an IC violation" why is it that we can fix a b/c when we get our lines mixed up by going with an IW & POI?

Under NBA rules, you could have a goaltend if the hitting of the backboard caused the ball to take an unnatural bounce.

As far as what you can do after the whistle, consider like you would any other IW...tell the table it wasn't a goaltend, explain to the coaches why you're changing the call, if a basket was made, the POI will would be a unrestricted throw-in for the opponent. If their was no basket and no team control, go to a jump ball at center court by any two opponents and reset the shot clock to 24 seconds (if you're playing with pro rules, as you said it was a mix) or go to the possession arrow.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correctable, but not a CE. And you must correct it before the ball is put back in play. Until you move on, ANY call you make is still fixable if you realize it is wrong.

Agreed. I think I said that in post 9

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correctable, but not a CE. And you must correct it before the ball is put back in play. Until you move on, ANY call you make is still fixable if you realize it is wrong.

Erroneously counting a score is not a CE???

Really?

Might want to check out 2-10-1-e and 2.10.1.k

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Erroneously counting a score is not a CE???

Really?

Might want to check out 2-10-1-e and 2.10.1.k

The error was in making an incorrect judgement call, not in counting the score. After you put the ball in play, you can't go back and decide it wasn't goaltending. That means it is not a CE.

A CE is calling goaltending, and incorrectly applying the score that is a result of the goaltending. You have the CE window to go back and fix the scoring part of the penalty, not to change the call itself.

Also, if before the ball is in play and after you've awarded the basket, you decide it was not goaltending, you NOW have a CE situation and can fix that until the CE window expires.

For a similar type of ruling, look up the case play that involves a throwin with 0.3 seconds on the clock going into halftime where the official counts the shot....the NFHS says this is not a correctable error. The result is an incorrectly counted score, but he error was in not recognizing that time expired before the shot was released, not in counting the score.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Also, if before the ball is in play and after you've awarded the basket, you decide it was not goaltending, you NOW have a CE situation and can fix that until the CE window expires.

Oh good God...that is exactly what tref had happen in the OP. So the rest of your post is simply more posturing.

In honor of JR - Lah me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh good God...that is exactly what tref had happen in the OP. So the rest of your post is simply more posturing.

In honor of JR - Lah me.

Huh???? What the heck are you talking about? I had no idea who said what several posts back. I don't reread the thread every time I visit the site.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For a similar type of ruling, look up the case play that involves a throwin with 0.3 seconds on the clock going into halftime where the official counts the shot....the NFHS says this is not a correctable error.

I hate that interpretation.

(Help. I can't find the casebook play. Can someone please post it.)

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Huh???? What the heck are you talking about? I had no idea who said what several posts back. I don't reread the thread every time I visit the site.

The entire thread is about a play where the official thought GT occurred and blew his whistle and counted the basket. He was asking if it was a CE.

You say "No, it's not" but then later post "but if this happens then it is."

Which is what tref originally asked about.

Is it all clearer now?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The entire thread is about a play where the official thought GT occurred and blew his whistle and counted the basket. He was asking if it was a CE.

You say "No, it's not" but then later post "but if this happens then it is."

Which is what tref originally asked about.

Is it all clearer now?

The POINT was that if the original situation was a CE, you'd have the typical CE correction window to decide you blew the goaltending call. You don't. It is NOT a CE. You have a much shorter time to decide the call was wrong. But once you no longer have GT and only the status of the basket remains, that part is a CE....and the points can be corrected in the normal CE window.

And he was asking about it, how is explaining why it is posturing?