False Double Foul?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

...As the shot is in the air B1 moves in for a rebound and pushes A1 in the back, A1 turns around and pushes B1 back.

... I needed to also penalize the push regardless, because it could have discounted the basket from scoring, had it scored. ....

If the ball is in flight the only thing that would discount a basket would be a violation against Team A (swinging elbows; unauthorized leaving of the court).

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the ball is in flight the only thing that would discount a basket would be a violation against Team A (swinging elbows; unauthorized leaving of the court).

I got myself confused with player control during flight of the ball. Damn it.

Well I guess that makes the way I adjudicated probably the best way. T then double T.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the ball is in flight the only thing that would discount a basket would be a violation against Team A (swinging elbows; unauthorized leaving of the court).

Or a pc on the shooter, reason why holding the whistle til the play ends makes sense.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by tref

Or a pc on the shooter, reason why holding the whistle til the play ends makes sense.

In this case though the foul is by Team A. Nevermind, the team designations are switched.

I still think an immediate whistle is appropriate here. Treating it like any other foul by Team B does not take away Team A's chance at a basket.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Or a pc on the shooter, reason why holding the whistle til the play ends makes sense.

I had removed that from the equation based on his description of the play.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

In this case though the foul is by Team A. Nevermind, the team designations are switched.

I still think an immediate whistle is appropriate here. Treating it like any other foul by Team B does not take away Team A's chance at a basket.

Calling a technical foul on the defense while a shot is in flight or when a scoring opportunity is immenent makes us think a bit more about how to resume play.
Allowing the play to finish & then sticking the defense gives us less to think about.

What if Toren assessed the T on the defender just before the shooter began his habitual shooting motion on a 3? You know they generally release the shot anyway & of course, this time it goes in.
Wouldn't it had hurt the defense more if we allow the 3 to get off, now we can count the basket, stick knucklehead & give the offense 2 FTs plus the ball. Potential 8 point play as opposed to a potential 5 point play, just by being patient.

That's just my opinion. I believe there's a caseplay on witholding the whistle for Ts on the defense as well.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I had removed that from the equation based on his description of the play.

True, just wanted to make sure any newbies that read this will know the 2 violations (as you noted) & the type of foul that would cancel a try in flight.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by tref

What if Toren assessed the T on the defender just before the shooter began his habitual shooting motion on a 3?

That would be a different play from the one we're discussing.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That would be a different play from the one we're discussing.

Most definitely, I think you're missing my point though.

If Toren has eyes & ears on knucklehead in a 2 person system, he probably has no idea of when the shooter gathered the ball. If the other official looks at Toren once he blew his whistle, he probably has no idea of the gather. Now the shot goes in & the crew is

Also, what if he assessed the T while an outlet pass was made for a dunk?

I respect your stance, but I'm going to practice holding my whistle on defensive Ts when there is a chance for the offense to score.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by tref

Most definitely, I think you're missing my point though.

No, I understand fully what you're saying, you're just talking about other scenarios that I was not addressing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...
I respect your stance, but I'm going to practice holding my whistle on defensive Ts when there is a chance for the offense to score.

Made that mistake twice. Once killing a fast break in a BV game. The other time in camp when a shot was going up and my P's were no help in providing information in regards to my whistle and the shot. We ended up wiping off a basket that should have counted.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Or a pc on the shooter, reason why holding the whistle til the play ends makes sense.

AFAIC, he held the whistle just fine. He waited (inadvertently or not) until the shot was in the air. No need to hold any longer, there won't be a rebound.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

AFAIC, he held the whistle just fine. He waited (inadvertently or not) until the shot was in the air. No need to hold any longer, there won't be a rebound.

Okay my friend (same sitch minus the double fouls) although the try has ended & Toren cracked on the great T, A5 soars in, catches the miss right off the rim, cocks it & bangs it through... the "play" has not ended IMO.

I'm not trying to wipe that highlight play for a T that could be had after the entire play is complete. The only way to make sure we dont mess this play up is to practice holding our whistle when these situations present themselves. I understand how it could happen though, its not too common to have a T on the defense in transition witn a scoring opportunity

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Okay my friend (same sitch minus the double fouls) although the try has ended & Toren cracked on the great T, A5 soars in, catches the miss right off the rim, cocks it & bangs it through... the "play" has not ended IMO.

I'm not trying to wipe that highlight play for a T that could be had after the entire play is complete. The only way to make sure we dont mess this play up is to practice holding our whistle when these situations present themselves. I understand how it could happen though, its not too common to have a T on the defense in transition witn a scoring opportunity

Well, I'm going off of the precedent of the injured player, where they say (in NFHS) to blow it dead when the shot is released.

Now, if in your case, I see A2 flying in from behind ready to grab a rebound, I'll hold another beat. But without an obvious imminent "highlight play", I'll kill it before A2 gets off the floor.

I'm just not that inclined to worry about highlight plays, but hey, I'm not doing state championship games yet, so when that happens....