False Double Foul

[jc147119]

We see a False Double Foul scenario more than we realize and I was wondering how often you all call it?

Case:
A1 is driving to the basket and in the motion of shooting is fouled by B1. After the whistle for the foul by B1, A1 then crashes into B2. The basket goes in.

Ruling: A False Double Foul. First foul is on B1 for fouling A2 in the act of shooting. Since A1 was in the act of shooting, the play is not dead until the ball either passes through the basket or misses. Then the second foul is a player control on A1 for charging into B2. The basket should be waived off (due to player control) and A1 should be awarded his two shots for the shooting foul committed by B1. The lane is cleared and after the two shots, Team B will be awarded the ball back at the end line - either with the ability to run the end line (if the second shot was successful) or with a spot throw in if the second free throw misses.

I had this play in a boys Varsity game this week and I knew what I had. I conferred with the R in the game and we decided to just count the basket and award A1 with a bonus shot, ignoring the charging foul on A1. Our reasoning is that noone would know this rule!!!! I wish we had have called it correctly as it should have been.

Your thoughts?

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by jc147119

We see a False Double Foul scenario more than we realize and I was wondering how often you all call it?

Case:
A1 is driving to the basket and in the motion of shooting is fouled by B1. After the whistle for the foul by B1, A1 then crashes into B2. The basket goes in.

Ruling: A False Double Foul. First foul is on B1 for fouling A2 in the act of shooting. Since A1 was in the act of shooting, the play is not dead until the ball either passes through the basket or misses. Then the second foul is a player control on A1 for charging into B2. The basket should be waived off (due to player control) and A1 should be awarded his two shots for the shooting foul committed by B1. The lane is cleared and after the two shots, Team B will be awarded the ball back at the end line - either with the ability to run the end line (if the second shot was successful) or with a spot throw in if the second free throw misses.

I had this play in a boys Varsity game this week and I knew what I had. I conferred with the R in the game and we decided to just count the basket and award A1 with a bonus shot, ignoring the charging foul on A1. Our reasoning is that noone would know this rule!!!! I wish we had have called it correctly as it should have been.

Your thoughts?

The ref is wrong. Just because "no"body knows the rule on the false double doesn't justified the misapplication of this rule because of any reason they come up with.

You provided the correct ruling to the R & he still chose to set it aside?

We should really stay away from not calling things correcrtly because coaches/players/fans won't know the rule... how will they ever learn.

[jc147119]

The strange part about this is that I was actually talking about the False Double foul in our pregame and asked how often the R had seen it and/or called it! It was then that the R had told me that noone would know that rule and to go with the shooting foul that starts it all. Then it just so happened that the play actually happened in our game and I knew what I had but I approached the R to let him know what I have. I am a relatively new official and I think it would have been very disrepectful to continue to address the play then and there. We did not talk about it any further but I really did not like applying the rule. I am not sure I could have done anything diffferent though!!!!!!!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jc147119

The strange part about this is that I was actually talking about the False Double foul in our pregame and asked how often the R had seen it and/or called it! It was then that the R had told me that noone would know that rule and to go with the shooting foul that starts it all. Then it just so happened that the play actually happened in our game and I knew what I had but I approached the R to let him know what I have. I am a relatively new official and I think it would have been very disrepectful to continue to address the play then and there. We did not talk about it any further but I really did not like applying the rule. I am not sure I could have done anything diffferent though!!!!!!!!!

Next time, just report it. You don't have to clear your calls through the R.

[jc147119]

Sounds like a plan! Thanks for feedback.

[cmathews]

We had one as well, only the basket didn't go in. We conferred for a minute and went with the shooting foul, because my partner felt that that foul came from behind and actually caused the offensive player to "crash" into the defensive player....so we shot two and moved on...

[jc147119]

In my play, the contact made by the primary defender B1 did not cause A1 to crash into B2. B1 got A1 on the elbow as he was shooting a floater, then A1 floated right into B2! Was definately two independent events - IMO.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

We should really stay away from not calling things correcrtly because coaches/players/fans won't know the rule... how will they ever learn.

They will only learn if flogged by us. Or, we could just simply apply the rules, but the flogging seems more fun.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

They will only learn if flogged by us. Or, we could just simply apply the rules, but the flogging seems more fun.

You really need to lay off Padgett's meds.

[Kelvin green]

Understand what the case book play says.... BUT

Did the foul by B do anything to A that might have caused the charge? if so I am not calling the foul on A...

false double fouls happen all the time and I think we make too much of the definition and all the hoo-ah that goes with it. Call the fouls that happen and administer in the order they occur...

The foul by B does not cause the ball to become dead, but I think most of the guys I know would only call the foul on A if A is going headhunting after he gets fouled and thinks he can get a free one....

[HawkeyeCubP]

In a recent video bulletin on the NCAA-M page of the ESO site regarding intentional fouls, I believe there's a good example of this type of scenario. (first play of the video)
Intentional Fouls

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Understand what the case book play says.... BUT

Did the foul by B do anything to A that might have caused the charge? if so I am not calling the foul on A...

false double fouls happen all the time and I think we make too much of the definition and all the hoo-ah that goes with it. Call the fouls that happen and administer in the order they occur...

The foul by B does not cause the ball to become dead, but I think most of the guys I know would only call the foul on A if A is going headhunting after he gets fouled and thinks he can get a free one....

We really do not call a false double foul, they kind of happen because of circumstance. And I completely agree that we really not call foul on a player that is fouled as a matter of principle. In my judgment those players are knocked into another player and I am not going to call them with a foul just because the casebook has a rare situation where this should be a foul. Kind of like on a simultaneous foul we usually pick one or even better yet a multiple foul. Calling a foul on A in this situation is just looking for all kinds of trouble.

Peace