Call on the court = Block. Your opinion?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

I don't think you are adding anything. However, you might be missing something, the words "obtaining initial". Again, I am responding with NFHS ruleset in mind and that might be the difference.

What you describe is obtaining initial legal guarding position. Art 3 of Rule 4-23 continues to say that after initial LGP is obtained,

a) the guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status
b) the guard is not required to continue facing the opponent
c) the guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs .....

The dragging left foot, which looks off the floor on the first camera angle, is still sliding in place on contact, but isn't this the case of maintaining LGP and not really obtaining it?

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

And that's where I was getting confused...thanks for stating it better than I was.

Jerk.

Now shutup.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And that's where I was getting confused...thanks for stating it better than I was.

Jerk.

Now shutup.

I was starting to question my opinion after a while. Thanks for making me feel less alone.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

CR is saying in order to establish it, he must have had two feet on the floor "in the path." I think he's taking "in the path" and putting it into a place where it's not intended. Otherwise, there'd be a third criteria listed in "to obtain legal guarding position...."

The "in the path" is a global requirement for guarding. It applies to everything about guarding. If you are not in the path, you are not guarding at all. The additional requirements to obtain/maintain LGP are not relevant since you're not even guarding.


If you don't, agree, how about this play....

B3 trailing A4 down the court from behind momentarily has both feet on the floor and is facing A4. B2 is fast enough to pass A4 and steps into A4's path with one foot down and his/her back to A4 just as A4 runs into B3. B2 previously had both feet on the floor and was facing A4 (all from behind) and is now in A4's path. Are you saying this is a charge?


Additionally, since all players have two feet down at some point in the game why have that requirement in obtaining LGP if it didn't go with the additional qualifier of being in the path with two feet down (and facing)?

[rockyroad]

In order to establish LGP, the defender has to have both feet on the floor and the torso facing the offensive player...they are then allowed to move to maintain that LGP. If they move "into the path" with LGP then their movement is legal...they don't have to be "in the path" to obtain LGP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

In order to establish LGP, the defender has to have both feet on the floor and the torso facing the offensive player...they are then allowed to move to maintain that LGP. If they move "into the path" with LGP then their movement is legal...they don't have to be "in the path" to obtain LGP.

That is simply wrong. I can't say it any plainer. NFHS and NCAA rules are very clear that you are not guarding at all if you are not in the path. A player can't obtain LGP unless they're in the path. Then, they can move to maintain it once they've been in the path with both feet down and facing.

See my play above. Block or Charge?

From AR 246...
A player who is guarding moves into the path of a dribbler and contact occurs.
RULING: Either player may be responsible, but the greater responsibility shall be that of the dribbler when the defensive player who is guarding conforms to legal guarding principles. In order to establish initial legal guarding position, the defender must be facing the dribbler and have both feet touching the playing court. When the defensive player jumps into position, both feet must return to the floor after the jump before he/she has attained a legal guarding position. No specific stance, time or distance shall be required. The guard may shift to maintain his/her position in the path of the dribbler, provided that the player who is guarding neither charges into the dribbler nor otherwise causes contact.

(Blue) If having two feet on the floor is all that is needed, why does the blue part require the two feet down again after jumping into the path of the dribbler if they were already on the floor before moving into the path?

(Red) If the guard is allowed to shift to maintain their position in the path of the dribbler, doesn't that imply they had to first obtain a position in the path of a dribbler.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

In order to establish LGP, the defender has to have both feet on the floor and the torso facing the offensive player...they are then allowed to move to maintain that LGP. If they move "into the path" with LGP then their movement is legal...they don't have to be "in the path" to obtain LGP.

In the OP, I think you have to ask yourself at what point is W1 guarding B1. I see W1 running/sliding towards B1, but never is actually guarding B1. Some, I suppose, say that because W1 is moving towards B1 (engaging her if you will), is within 6 ft, etc. that she has LGP status.

The block area to me is where W1 attempts to gain LGP, but contact occurs before that happens.

[tref]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

In the OP, I think you have to ask yourself at what point is W1 guarding B1. I see W1 running/sliding towards B1, but never is actually guarding B1. Some, I suppose, say that because W1 is moving towards B1 (engaging her if you will), is within 6 ft, etc. that she has LGP status.

The block area to me is where W1 attempts to gain LGP, but contact occurs before that happens.

+1

Some of us see this play the same way. It seems others have a different understanding of what "guarding" actually is.

I didnt think we should apply a closely guarded count (Mens 6' - Womens 3' while holding) when a defender is within the required distance, but behind or on the side or running into the play.