The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 09:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,081
Block, Charge or No Call

Block, charge or no call

Block.Charge 7 on Yahoo! Video

I'm alright with the official's no call.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 09:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
No call. B1 got there late, but it didn't affect the shot. A1 ended on the floor not because of B1 but because of B2 and that was either after or just as the ball ecame dead.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 10:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 241
This is a bang bang play and 2 players hit the floor....In my association we are expected to make a call one way or the other. Watching the video the first time I was satisfied with either a block or a charge call....but after replaying it 5 or 6 times I am confident the shooter jumped as the defender moved forward to set up....and therefore I have a block: basket and 1 shot.

It is also my opinion the shooter would have fallen without B2 crashing into him and finishing him off. Also I am assuming NFHS rules.

JMO
__________________
Da Official
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 10:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 90
No call. B1 flopped and this caused B2 to trip and fall into A1 after the basket. Incidental contact. It looked like A1 carries the ball as he made his move to drive to the basket.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:17am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
The lead has a much better angle on this than the camera.

B2 had LGP until he nudged forward before contact. It can't be a charge, so it's either a block or incidental. If you're not sure, go with incidental.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:29am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,642
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
My Association too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Official View Post
In my association we are expected to make a call one way or the other.
I've been told, "When bodies are on the ground you have to call something."
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
no contact??

looks like most of the contact is caused by the primary defender and not the guy moving in late where there was minimal if any contact
great no call, ref is right there, great sight line, another good no call
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:32am
Tio Tio is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 463
Wow! This play is not a no-call. You have a train wreck with 3 players hitting the floor. The crew must have an opinion block or charge, namely the lead (the secondary defender came from).

Based on the film, the play is a blocking foul. The defender did not have legal guarding position when the shooter began his habitual shooting motion.

But more importantly, we need to agree that this play needs a whistle. No-calls on this play are part of the reason "rough play" has been a point of emphasis the past 10 years.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:35am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
I've been told, "When bodies are on the ground you have to call something."
What I've been told is, "if you don't call something, you'd better be able to explain why."
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.

Last edited by Adam; Mon May 10, 2010 at 11:37am.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:38am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio View Post
But more importantly, we need to agree that this play needs a whistle. No-calls on this play are part of the reason "rough play" has been a point of emphasis the past 10 years.
This play wasn't "rough play," it was clumsy play. There's a difference.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
next level

it is very easy to call this play and probably not have any arguments but to get to the next level in refereeing (as it appears the refs in film have done) is to figure what needs to be called and what can be let go. The secondary defender was late and did cause some contact, but in the end great no call. this ref has reached the next level. He understands the game and does not need the borderline calls to be made in his game. GREAT NO CALL
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 11:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 788
I'm comfortable with a no call there.

There is contact that doesn't effect the play. B1 goes down but it trying to get a call, could have absorbed the contact a number of ways. A1 got his shot off couldn't absorb inadvertant/inconsequential contact he was responsible for causing.B2 isn't in a proper athletic position to keep his balance and stumbles over 2 downed players.

No real immediate advantage or disadvantage created. Play on.

As for if bodies are on the floor you need to call something . . .if your calling something here because there was contact you aren't "managing a game" you are taking flow out of it by calling stuff cause kids hit the floor. All you'll end up with is every kid who gets bumped or nudged hitting the deck and their coaches expecting a call one way or the other.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 12:10pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
CHARGE!! CHARGE!! CHARGE!! I watched the play very closely and the defender obtained a LGP just before the offensive player went airborne to shoot the ball.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 12:12pm
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,642
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Then I've got to be a better splainer......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
What I've been told is, "if you don't call something, you'd better be able to explain why."
Then I haven't mastered it yet.

When being evaluated, my case is usually the block charge. A1 is going down the lane, B1 anticipates the charge, flops or is demonstrative with contact, and I pass. Hence the "you gotta call something."

And, while I know these are ya HTBT type situations, their advice to me is usually, call the block and tell B1 to either take the charge or knock off the acting (as he only has x# of fouls left).

I haven't mastered this yet.....but, I have another opportunity tonight. Hoorah!
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 10, 2010, 12:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
Then I haven't mastered it yet.

When being evaluated, my case is usually the block charge. A1 is going down the lane, B1 anticipates the charge, flops or is demonstrative with contact, and I pass. Hence the "you gotta call something."

And, while I know these are ya HTBT type situations, their advice to me is usually, call the block and tell B1 to either take the charge or knock off the acting (as he only has x# of fouls left).

I haven't mastered this yet.....but, I have another opportunity tonight. Hoorah!
I don't like the imperative to call something whenever bodies hit the floor. In this play, the defender was late but the contact did not affect the play. No call is the right call, as others have said.

If the O-coach asks, I'd say, "no disadvantage, coach." If the D-coach asks, I'd say, "your player was late, coach." Keep your explanations to 5 words or fewer.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Block? Charge? No call? Clark Kent Basketball 53 Mon Jan 25, 2010 03:25pm
Block/Charge/No Call djskinn Basketball 35 Sun Oct 18, 2009 07:31pm
Block/Charge call lookin2improve Basketball 9 Wed Nov 15, 2006 06:03pm
Block/Charge/No Call hbioteach Basketball 8 Fri Dec 03, 2004 03:32pm
Block, Charge or No call cingram Basketball 7 Wed Jun 02, 2004 08:09am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1