Another episode of "T or No T"...you make the call

[chymechowder]

I acknowledge that my point of view is partially shaped by being a football official first (12 years) and a basketball official second (2 years), but I don't at all understand why anyone would call this a technical. There's no taunting. No yelling. No delay. The kid dunked and started getting back on defense.

If you have to split hairs about the degree to which a kid pulls his arms up, then--to me, at least--you're not even in the neighborhood for a T.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. And not trying to disparage those who think it's T-worthy.

But philosophy-wise, I just think T's need to "be there." Put another way, if reasonable officials would debate it, then that's probably an indication that there's not enough there.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

.......if reasonable officials would debate it, then that's probably an indication that there's not enough there.

+1

[canuckrefguy]

A heck of an athletic play.

Otherwise, nothing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I acknowledge that my point of view is partially shaped by being a football official first (12 years) and a basketball official second (2 years), but I don't at all understand why anyone would call this a technical. There's no taunting. No yelling. No delay. The kid dunked and started getting back on defense.

If you have to split hairs about the degree to which a kid pulls his arms up, then--to me, at least--you're not even in the neighborhood for a T.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. And not trying to disparage those who think it's T-worthy.

But philosophy-wise, I just think T's need to "be there." Put another way, if reasonable officials would debate it, then that's probably an indication that there's not enough there.

The point is that grabbing the rim beyond what is necessary to make the shot/dunk is not legal. That act itself is the taunt.

If you want to propose that pulling up on the rim be legal, then suggest a rule change.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If you want to propose that pulling up on the rim be legal, then suggest a rule change.

I don't think he's proposing anything...just that if we're debating, it's probably marginal, so leave it alone. I tend to agree.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I don't think he's proposing anything...just that if we're debating, it's probably marginal, so leave it alone. I tend to agree.

Great way of putting it. I agree. Get the obvious.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Great way of putting it. I agree. Get the obvious.

And this was.

[tref]

Is this a real game or a showcase?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Is this a real game or a showcase?

It's the "national championship" of non-sanctioned high school teams. These teams play against some regular public schools during the course of the season but also travel extensively and don't have state imposed restrictions. Some of the teams may also have kids who have already graduated high school and are doing a year of prep school before going to college.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And this was.

Obvious? It seems we have three pages of posts that do not all agree. That doesn't seem obvious.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Obvious? It seems we have three pages of posts that do not all agree. That doesn't seem obvious.

The action was obvious, I don't see anyone disputing that. Some are just saying they wouldn't call it a T.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I don't at all understand why anyone would call this a technical. There's no taunting. No yelling. No delay. The kid dunked and started getting back on defense.

Very well. This isn't about unsportsmanlike conduct at all. Often times, people think technical fouls are always about unsportsmanlike conduct, and that's not the case.

See NFHS 10-3-3. This is about grasping the ring. If you pull yourself up on the ring, that's clearly grasping. A quick grasp without hanging is one thing. This is the other side of that bell-shaped curve. We've been told a number of times that grasping the ring is a safety issue, let alone the possibility of breaking the backboard (which can still happen, despite advances in breakaway rims). Wasn't this rule put in place to make sure we can finish the game with two working goals?

I think GroupThink has a point, though. The more often kids can throw it down in your area, the more leeway you're likely to see. There's not a lot of above the rim play in my little corner of the nation. However, the official in the video knew this game was nationally televised, and the kids were there to show off their skills to college scouts. If that's how he was told to officiate, then we're back to Roman Law again.

[Raymond]

Nothing. The momentum of his jump has him going away from the basket and he grabs the rim to steady himself.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Nothing. The momentum of his jump has him going away from the basket and he grabs the rim to steady himself.

I don't think I'd have called the T, but I don't buy that he's steadying himself. He's pulling himself up to get an extra couple of feet on the jump.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Nothing. The momentum of his jump has him going away from the basket and he grabs the rim to steady himself.

Ding, Ding, Ding this is the winner for me.
He is going under the rim, during the jump he rotates his body 180 degrees from his original direction. When he dunks his hips and legs are not yet vertical under his upper torso. The grasp and pull, brings his body vertical he then lets go and returns to the floor. Nothing other than insuring his ability to land safely.