Another episode of "T or No T"...you make the call

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Great way of putting it. I agree. Get the obvious.

And this was.

[tref]

Is this a real game or a showcase?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Is this a real game or a showcase?

It's the "national championship" of non-sanctioned high school teams. These teams play against some regular public schools during the course of the season but also travel extensively and don't have state imposed restrictions. Some of the teams may also have kids who have already graduated high school and are doing a year of prep school before going to college.

[tref]

Ahhh ~ tough to call this a T in a game of that magnitude... easy play-on in a showcase setting.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Ahhh ~ tough to call this a T in a game of that magnitude... easy play-on in a showcase setting.

Showcase, sure. Magnitude? Nah.

[tref]

Snaqs, you dont think it would be tough to whack him after that highlight play in a National C'Ship setting?
Keep in mind "tough" doesnt mean I wont call it. Afterall, tough calls are what we get paid for.

FTR, I thought it was a bit over the top for any sanctioned game, but I'd really like to see what other similar acts were passed on prior to this one.
A T here may not fit this particular situation.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And this was.

Obvious? It seems we have three pages of posts that do not all agree. That doesn't seem obvious.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Obvious? It seems we have three pages of posts that do not all agree. That doesn't seem obvious.

The action was obvious, I don't see anyone disputing that. Some are just saying they wouldn't call it a T.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The action was obvious...

Unless he has springs in his fingers.

But the obvious illegal action still boils down to the judgment of the floor officials. To pull the trigger or not to pull the trigger??

[mplagrow]

Now we're getting to a different philosophical question. Are there contexts in which there's an 'obvious' rule violation and you're not blowing your whistle? I think we'd all have to agree that there are. Is the violation in this video obvious? I think it is pretty hard to make a case to the contrary. But if I was in the moment, I probably would have had nothing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Unless he has springs in his fingers.

But the obvious illegal action still boils down to the judgment of the floor officials. To pull the trigger or not to pull the trigger??

Those that are saying no T are doing so by applying a qualifier to the rule that doesn't exist.....that he didn't grasp the rim too much. But, the rule doesn't consider how much....just whether he did or did not.

That said, and even in spite of my prior comments, I may or may not call it depending on the overall situation...yeah, I did say that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Those that are saying no T are doing so by applying a qualifier to the rule that doesn't exist.....that he didn't grasp the rim too much. But, the rule doesn't consider how much....just whether he did or did not.

That said, and even in spite of my prior comments, I may or may not call it depending on the overall situation...yeah, I did say that.

No one is qualifying anything any more than those that think this is a "no-brainer" T either. Because I have not seen any interpretation that says clearly what is or what is not a hanging on the rim dunk under the NF rules. And certainly not anything that shows what is or is not on video. So what I think it comes down to how much someone actually sees dunking in their game. I could find much more suspect dunks than this one and this was not even close to those that are not even called a T. Again, there is a reason why some guys get questioned for their ability to call certain things and this being a "no-brainer" T would suggest something about those saying that. There is clearly a debate to be had, but let us not act like one side is so much right and the other side is so wrong.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Those that are saying no T are doing so by applying a qualifier to the rule that doesn't exist.....that he didn't grasp the rim too much. But, the rule doesn't consider how much....just whether he did or did not.

That said, and even in spite of my prior comments, I may or may not call it depending on the overall situation...yeah, I did say that.

Don't you have to add that qualifier though to properly judge plays? If we went just by the strict wording of the rule, any grasp of the rim would be a T no matter how short(not including injury prevention). Do you think the Brittney Griner dunk should have been a T?

Whether the rule says explicitly or not, we add that qualifier as to how we judge the play IMO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Don't you have to add that qualifier though to properly judge plays? If we went just by the strict wording of the rule, any grasp of the rim would be a T no matter how short(not including injury prevention). Do you think the Brittney Griner dunk should have been a T?

Whether the rule says explicitly or not, we add that qualifier as to how we judge the play IMO.

By rule, no. Did they grab the rim or not? It is a simple question. That is all the rule requires us to judge....not was it too long. Unless it is for safety, the rules say it is a T if a player grasps the rim.

Just because minor occurrences of grasping the rim are often not called doesn't mean it is actually legal any more than uncalled travels are.

In my opinion, if the grabbing of the rim is used to raise the body, it is a T....and I've seen more than enough to tell when a the effects on the player's body are from just making the dunk vs. unnecessarily raising the body.

And in this specific case, the player used the rim to lift himself high enough to get his head above the rim....I've never seen a dunk where a player's head gets that high after the dunk without grabbing the rim....they may be near that high before the dunk but they don't start to come down and go back up without some extra help.

Now, in a game, I might not always call it. It depends on the game....certainly not in the Griner case, even if I felt she violated the letter of the rule. It would have simply been wrong to call something on that.