UNC Ash v. Syracuse Rule Misapplication

[APG]

I know there's a thread already, but I figured having the video here at the beginning would make discussing it easier rather than having the clip buried in the thread.



Feel free to merge the thread if you feel it needs to be Brad.

[Raymond]

First time seeing the video. I see the problem. While the contact for the foul occurred before the shot clock expired the whistle from the official came afterwards. So since the ball was still in the player's hand when the shot clock expired and the official had not blown his whistle you can't go to the monitor and determine when the contact occurred. You can only see when the whistle was blown and if the shot clock expired.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

First time seeing the video. I see the problem. While the contact for the foul occurred before the shot clock expired the whistle from the official came afterwards. So since the ball was still in the player's hand when the shot clock expired and the official had not blown his whistle. You can't go to the monitor and determine when the contact occurred, you can only see when the whistle was blown and if the shot clock expired.

If that's how the rule is interpreted (I'm not saying you're wrong), then the rule and interpretation are absolute garbage.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

If that's how the rule is interpreted (I'm not saying you're wrong), then the rule and interpretation are absolute garbage.

Think about it APG, can you cite a rule or case play that tells us to determine what time was on the clock when contact occurred? Or do we review it to see when the whistle blew?

With that said, let's take replay monitors and shot clocks out of the equation. NFHS end of game situation. Contact clearly prior to horn but whistle and release (made basket) come after the horn. What would we do? I say we would wave off the shot but award 2 free throws.

For 'Cuse situation, using the monitor, I believe basket should have been waved off, put time on game clock equalled to when whistle blew, award 2 shots for foul during the shooting motion.

(Apologize if this is a repeat of what someone else said in other thread)

[APG]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Think about it APG, can you cite a rule or case play that tells us to determine what time was on the clock when contact occurred? Or do we review it to see when the whistle blew?

With that said, let's take replay monitors and shot clocks out of the equation. NFHS end of game situation. Contact clearly prior to horn but whistle and release (made basket) come after the horn. What would we do? I say we would wave off the shot but award 2 free throws.

For 'Cuse situation, using the monitor, I believe basket should have been waved off, put time on game clock equalled to when whistle blew, award 2 shots for foul during the shooting motion.

(Apologize if this is a repeat of what someone else said in other thread)

In NFHS land, were for 99 percent of games, a monitor isn't allowed, yes I agree that's how it would be handled if no official had definite knowledge about the timing devices.

I see the rule that you're mentioning...and the rule and accompanying interpretation are garbage. It's basically penalizing a team that was fouled before the expiration of time because an official was slightly late. A foul doesn't occur when the whistle blows...we just use that as a tool to signal the clock should be stopped. It's not as if one can't determine when contact occurred on the monitor.

I also contrast that with how it would be handled in the NBA which is logical...the contact (which was already deemed to be illegal) occurred before the shot/game clock expired and the affected team won't be penalized because an official wasn't able to put air in the whistle in a timely fashion or a table official wasn't able to instantaneously stop the clock.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Think about it APG, can you cite a rule or case play that tells us to determine what time was on the clock when contact occurred? Or do we review it to see when the whistle blew?

With that said, let's take replay monitors and shot clocks out of the equation. NFHS end of game situation. Contact clearly prior to horn but whistle and release (made basket) come after the horn. What would we do? I say we would wave off the shot but award 2 free throws.

For 'Cuse situation, using the monitor, I believe basket should have been waved off, put time on game clock equalled to when whistle blew, award 2 shots for foul during the shooting motion.

(Apologize if this is a repeat of what someone else said in other thread)

Actually, reviewing the ARs it does say if it can be determined when the foul occurred you can put that time back on the clock. But it doesn't explicitly say we can apply that to the shot clock.

[Texas Aggie]

The thing is, when you have a shooting foul, you have to assume that the contact affected the shot -- including the timing of the release. If you don't, then why do we assume it affected the shot at all and just make all fouls common fouls?