Momentum OB

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I think we've recently had this discussion recently, but I do have to respectfully disagree. The definition of an interrupted dribble uses the terms "deflect" and "gets away" neither of which are voluntary actions of a dribbler. If a dribbler does something intentional with the ball he is controlling it and it is under his control.

However, I admit this makes the op a difficult case. As written this is an OOB violation. However, if instead of A1 recovering the ball, A2 recovers the ball, it would be a pass and not a dribble and therefore not a violation. That's a problem.

But likewise, the ability to interrupt a dribble at will causes problems (like allowing the dribbler to go OOB whenever he pleases so long as he convinces the referee that he's interrupted his dribble).

I see your point, but I I think "whenever he pleases" is a stretch. If he goes out on purpose, it's a violation for that. In my view, if he relinquishes control, he's giving the defense an opportunity to grab the ball.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see your point, but I I think "whenever he pleases" is a stretch. If he goes out on purpose, it's a violation for that. In my view, if he relinquishes control, he's giving the defense an opportunity to grab the ball.

Stretching for illustrations purposes only of course.

However, do when then need to determine whether he meant to go out or not? And then would we have to wait to see how many times the ball bounced if we determine he didn't mean to go out?

I'm sympathetic to what your saying because I agree that it feels fair. I think it's a rough spot in the rules but one I don't think I've ever personally encountered in a real game.

[Welpe]

I saw it during a scrimmage in my first year. The dribbler lost her balance and was falling out of bounds, she let the ball go and went OOB. The ball kept bouncing and nobody went for it so she ran back in and grabbbed it. The official had no whistle on it and it sparked a lively conversation between all of us with our trainer confirming it was the right call.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I saw it during a scrimmage in my first year. The dribbler lost her balance and was falling out of bounds, she let the ball go and went OOB. The ball kept bouncing and nobody went for it so she ran back in and grabbbed it. The official had no whistle on it and it sparked a lively conversation between all of us with our trainer confirming it was the right call.

Let go.... so she was not dribbling, but rather holding the ball when she lost her balance?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Let go.... so she was not dribbling, but rather holding the ball when she lost her balance?

"The dribbler..."

She let it bounce off on its own and did not attempt to control it any longer when she realized she could not maintain her inbounds status.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

"The dribbler..."

She let it bounce off on its own and did not attempt to control it any longer when she realized she could not maintain her inbounds status.

Sorry - my bad. That was not what I meant to say. My internet conked out and I thought that my edit went through.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Stretching for illustrations purposes only of course.

However, do when then need to determine whether he meant to go out or not? And then would we have to wait to see how many times the ball bounced if we determine he didn't mean to go out?

I'm sympathetic to what your saying because I agree that it feels fair. I think it's a rough spot in the rules but one I don't think I've ever personally encountered in a real game.

We have to determine that anyway. We normally give the benefit of the doubt to momentum.

I've had the call once in a JV boys game. A1 trapped near the sideline about the FT line extended in his FC. Still has his dribble, but can't go anywhere. He throws it over the head of B1, towards the division line, then runs around the trap, out of bounds, to get the ball.

He wasn't in control of his dribble, but he went out for an unauthorized reason, so I blew it. Of course, it was opposite table, so the coaches likely had no idea what I called and no one questioned it.

I've also had the sideline play. A1 dribbling up court, comes up on B1 close to the sideline. He pushes his dribble slightly towards the middle of the court while he tiptoes along the sideline. Ball goes on one side of B1, A1 goes to the other. He gets around, stepping on the line in the process, comes back in and tracks the ball down to resume his dribble. No call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've also had the sideline play. A1 dribbling up court, comes up on B1 close to the sideline. He pushes his dribble slightly towards the middle of the court while he tiptoes along the sideline. Ball goes on one side of B1, A1 goes to the other. He gets around, stepping on the line in the process, comes back in and tracks the ball down to resume his dribble. No call.

See, this is the play I'm talking about when I say it's problematic to allow a dribbler to interrupt his dribble intentionally. This is not an interrupted dribble in my mind because the dribbler is controlling the ball. It's not gotten away from him and it's certainly not deflected off him. This play should, IMO, be a violation. I understand why you wouldn't call it though.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

See, this is the play I'm talking about when I say it's problematic to allow a dribbler to interrupt his dribble intentionally. This is not an interrupted dribble in my mind because the dribbler is controlling the ball. It's not gotten away from him and it's certainly not deflected off him. This play should, IMO, be a violation. I understand why you wouldn't call it though.

I understand your point. I think it's sufficient to relinquish control, as the defense had plenty of opportunity to get the ball. His ID could have easily been a pass as well, but he certainly wasn't in player control, and I certainly wouldn't have granted a TO request during that time.