Momentum OB

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In the OP, my first thought is that it wasn't a dribble. It seems unlikely that the kid sprinted back and gained control but was unable to control himself enough to stay inbounds.

Sure it does, his momentum would either have him travelling by grabbing ball and taking steps or as he decided to do......dribble. He then says whoa I can't dribble OOB, so I'll leave ball here only to return when he has control of himself

I can't believe there is even a discussion on what this is. Any other situation at any other area on the court and you have an easy travel(edit......OOB)

Think of dribbler on a fast break who leaves ball near basket as he can't stop only to run OOB, return to court grab ball and lay it in.......huh?

What it seems a few are saying is there are no court boundaries

[JetMetFan]

4-15-5

An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.

In the OP it does not sound as though the play met the first criterion for an ID since the ball didn't deflect off the dribbler. IMO it doesn't meet the second criterion either. The ball really didn't "get away" from the dribbler. It sounds more like the dribbler got away from the ball. WIthout seeing the play I'd say OOB was the correct call but as others said just not for the reason given.

[Adam]

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

Good rule of thumb. Speaking of a rule of thumb, I had a retired official tell me last night that if, "the thumb goes up", that it's a carry (palming) violation. Any thoughts?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good rule of thumb. Speaking of a rule of thumb, I had a retired official tell me last night that if, "the thumb goes up", that it's a carry (palming) violation. Any thoughts?

Sounds like it deserves its own thread.

Fullor, how would you get a travel out of this? In the middle of the court this would be nothing.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good rule of thumb. Speaking of a rule of thumb, I had a retired official tell me last night that if, "the thumb goes up", that it's a carry (palming) violation. Any thoughts?

"Any more than a handshake" around here.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sounds like it deserves its own thread.

Fullor, how would you get a travel out of this? In the middle of the court this would be nothing.

not following your question. OP sitch is about OOB.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

I think we've recently had this discussion recently, but I do have to respectfully disagree. The definition of an interrupted dribble uses the terms "deflect" and "gets away" neither of which are voluntary actions of a dribbler. If a dribbler does something intentional with the ball he is controlling it and it is under his control.

However, I admit this makes the op a difficult case. As written this is an OOB violation. However, if instead of A1 recovering the ball, A2 recovers the ball, it would be a pass and not a dribble and therefore not a violation. That's a problem.

But likewise, the ability to interrupt a dribble at will causes problems (like allowing the dribbler to go OOB whenever he pleases so long as he convinces the referee that he's interrupted his dribble).

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by fullor30

not following your question. OP sitch is about OOB.

I was responding to the following...

Originally Posted by fullor30

I can't believe there is even a discussion on what this is. Any other situation at any other area on the court and you have an easy travel.

How would you have a travel?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I was responding to the following...



How would you have a travel?

OOPS, You wouldn't, meant to say OOB.

[Welpe]

OK that makes much more sense.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I think we've recently had this discussion recently, but I do have to respectfully disagree. The definition of an interrupted dribble uses the terms "deflect" and "gets away" neither of which are voluntary actions of a dribbler. If a dribbler does something intentional with the ball he is controlling it and it is under his control.

However, I admit this makes the op a difficult case. As written this is an OOB violation. However, if instead of A1 recovering the ball, A2 recovers the ball, it would be a pass and not a dribble and therefore not a violation. That's a problem.

But likewise, the ability to interrupt a dribble at will causes problems (like allowing the dribbler to go OOB whenever he pleases so long as he convinces the referee that he's interrupted his dribble).

I see your point, but I I think "whenever he pleases" is a stretch. If he goes out on purpose, it's a violation for that. In my view, if he relinquishes control, he's giving the defense an opportunity to grab the ball.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see your point, but I I think "whenever he pleases" is a stretch. If he goes out on purpose, it's a violation for that. In my view, if he relinquishes control, he's giving the defense an opportunity to grab the ball.

Stretching for illustrations purposes only of course.

However, do when then need to determine whether he meant to go out or not? And then would we have to wait to see how many times the ball bounced if we determine he didn't mean to go out?

I'm sympathetic to what your saying because I agree that it feels fair. I think it's a rough spot in the rules but one I don't think I've ever personally encountered in a real game.

[Welpe]

I saw it during a scrimmage in my first year. The dribbler lost her balance and was falling out of bounds, she let the ball go and went OOB. The ball kept bouncing and nobody went for it so she ran back in and grabbbed it. The official had no whistle on it and it sparked a lively conversation between all of us with our trainer confirming it was the right call.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I saw it during a scrimmage in my first year. The dribbler lost her balance and was falling out of bounds, she let the ball go and went OOB. The ball kept bouncing and nobody went for it so she ran back in and grabbbed it. The official had no whistle on it and it sparked a lively conversation between all of us with our trainer confirming it was the right call.

Let go.... so she was not dribbling, but rather holding the ball when she lost her balance?