End Of Game: NC State v. North Carolina

[dahoopref]

Play starts in the T's area and moves into the L's primary area of coverage; not a secondary defender. L appears to have a wide/open look.

In plays like this that have happened to me in the past, if I'm the T and I don't stay connected to the play, I'm trusting the L will make the call....any call. During the pre-game, I tell my crew if a player(s) is on the floor we have to know why he is down there on the floor.

If an evaluator comes in after the game and asks what happened, the L is gonna have to "man-up" and explain his non-call. In any case, I'm gonna trust my partner that the "no-call" at that time was the right decision.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Play starts in the T's area and moves into the L's primary area of coverage; not a secondary defender. L appears to have a wide/open look.

In plays like this that have happened to me in the past, if I'm the T and I don't stay connected to the play, I'm trusting the L will make the call....any call. During the pre-game, I tell my crew if a player(s) is on the floor we have to know why he is down there on the floor.

If an evaluator comes in after the game and asks what happened, the L is gonna have to "man-up" and explain his non-call. In any case, I'm gonna trust my partner that the "no-call" at that time was the right decision.

Oh, so you will hang you partner(s) out to dry?

Play starts in your area, you will pass it off on someone whom may be working off ball looking for a secondary defender to come into the picture.

Then if an evaluator comes and question the call the L will have to "man up" How about the person where the play originated from "MAN UP" and say. I did not stay with the play until there was a change in status of the ball (pass, shot, or foul) have taken place.

Unbelieveable!!! IMO

[jearef]

In my opinion, the dribbler clearly initiates contact in order to create space so he can get off the shot. An obvious advantage is gained. It's a game-changer and a clear player control foul. Especially given the situation, someone has to have a whistle.

The unfortunate thing is that with the Hess ejections of a few weeks ago, the NC State fans are going to start talking about conspiracy. Obviously a bunch of baloney, but we all know it's coming.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by jearef

The unfortunate thing is that with the Hess ejections of a few weeks ago, the NC State fans are going to start talking about conspiracy. Obviously a bunch of baloney, but we all know it's coming.

Well Brian Dorsey didn't exactly help quell the conspiracy theorists at all...

[fiasco]

Ignoring the commentary, what differences do you see (if any) between the calls in question on both ends of the floor?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Ignoring the commentary, what differences do you see (if any) between the calls in question on both ends of the floor?

I'll comment (w/o having read other responses). The first PC on NCSU was passed on by the Lead and called by the Trail who was straight-lined. And Kendall Marshall's play was also passed on by the Lead. So I say the Trail had no business putting a whistle on the NCSU PC foul.

On the 2 post plays: the NCSU post player put his shoulder into the defender. Zeller did absolutely nothing on his post play, the defender just fell down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Oh, so you will hang you partner(s) out to dry?

Play starts in your area, you will pass it off on someone whom may be working off ball looking for a secondary defender to come into the picture.

Then if an evaluator comes and question the call the L will have to "man up" How about the person where the play originated from "MAN UP" and say. I did not stay with the play until there was a change in status of the ball (pass, shot, or foul) have taken place.

Unbelieveable!!! IMO

I'm not sure I get this -- this decision is clearly in the L's primary and in the men's game I'd be shocked if they pregamed this as anything other than the L taking this all the way. Lead is king on these.

I've been in the same position on a play like this and it's not a trivial thing for the T to come all the way down there to grab that one.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm not sure I get this -- this decision is clearly in the L's primary and in the men's game I'd be shocked if they pregamed this as anything other than the L taking this all the way. Lead is king on these.

I've been in the same position on a play like this and it's not a trivial thing for the T to come all the way down there to grab that one.

Rich, The issue I have is. From my perspective we pass off the responsibility of plays which begins in our area. This is where the start, develop, finish comes into play. The official should mainitain it until the status of the play changes.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Oh, so you will hang you partner(s) out to dry?

Play starts in your area, you will pass it off on someone whom may be working off ball looking for a secondary defender to come into the picture.

Then if an evaluator comes and question the call the L will have to "man up" How about the person where the play originated from "MAN UP" and say. I did not stay with the play until there was a change in status of the ball (pass, shot, or foul) have taken place.

Unbelieveable!!! IMO

I'd be incline to side with you if there was a secondary defender entering the L's area. Can you tell me if there is one?

From what I see from the clip, the T has a "closed look" when the contact happens while the L has the best view with an "open look." If I'm the T, I'm gonna trust the L has the correct position to make the right decision. If I come in with a whistle after the no-call, chances are from my view as the T that I'd be guessing since the defender was moving backward playing defense before the contact happens.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

I'd be incline to side with you if there was a secondary defender entering the L's area. Can you tell me if there is one?

From what I see from the clip, the T has a "closed look" when the contact happens while the L has the best view with an "open look." If I'm the T, I'm gonna trust the L has the correct position to make the right decision. If I come in with a whistle after the no-call, chances are from my view as the T that I'd be guessing since the defender was moving backward playing defense before the contact happens.

I cannot tell you that. If the T look is closed all he have to do is move his feet to maintain a positive look by stepping down towards the endline.

The L could also be thinking. I trust my T to stay with the play until the status change because it came from his area understanding the SDF concept.

For me, I stay with the play until the status change when it starts in my primary. I will also explain if questioned. The one thing I will not due is say a the L better "Man up" explain it.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I cannot tell you that. If the T look is closed all he have to do is move his feet to maintain a positive look by stepping down towards the endline.

The L could also be thinking. I trust my T to stay with the play until the status change because it came from his area understanding the SDF concept.

For me, I stay with the play until the status change when it starts in my primary. I will also explain if questioned. The one thing I will not due is say a the L better "Man up" explain it.

The T does step-down (from the the first C to the second C on the ACC logo) but not enough. If anything, because he stepped down, his look became even more closed because the players moved in the same direction. I agree a step-down could help but he would need to go down to the FT line extended to see the play and with the speed of the play and the direction of the players, that just wasn't going to happen. The T could stay connected all he wants on this play, but from his position adjustment, he ended up looking through the UNC player's back when the contact happened.

The L, on the drive, widens out to get an open look the drive, which IMO, has the best look for a decision.

The term "man-up" is a term my conference supervisor used recently at our conference tournament. His philosophy is that the crew is a "team" with individual responsibilities. In a semi-final game, the crew should realize that each member is there because they can handle their business in their PCA and they can trust each other to make the right decision. If a high impact play happens in your PCA, you will have to "man-up" and explain your decision.

On this play, I can live with the L making a call or no call because I trust him. As long as he was in proper position to do so, which IMO, he was.

[jearef]

Does anyone else think that C was in great position to get a look at this play? I know it's outside his PCA, but if you look at the video, he may have had the best angle of anyone on the crew. We always say we should stay in our own PCA unless it's an obvious foul or a game decider; in my opinion, this play was both.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by jearef

Does anyone else think that C was in great position to get a look at this play? I know it's outside his PCA, but if you look at the video, he may have had the best angle of anyone on the crew. We always say we should stay in our own PCA unless it's an obvious foul or a game decider; in my opinion, this play was both.

Good question, the C did have the better look and IMO should have extended over since majority of the action(players) were strong side.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

The T does step-down (from the the first C to the second C on the ACC logo) but not enough. If anything, because he stepped down, his look became even more closed because the players moved in the same direction. I agree a step-down could help but he would need to go down to the FT line extended to see the play and with the speed of the play and the direction of the players, that just wasn't going to happen. The T could stay connected all he wants on this play, but from his position adjustment, he ended up looking through the UNC player's back when the contact happened.

The L, on the drive, widens out to get an open look the drive, which IMO, has the best look for a decision.

The term "man-up" is a term my conference supervisor used recently at our conference tournament. His philosophy is that the crew is a "team" with individual responsibilities. In a semi-final game, the crew should realize that each member is there because they can handle their business in their PCA and they can trust each other to make the right decision. If a high impact play happens in your PCA, you will have to "man-up" and explain your decision.

On this play, I can live with the L making a call or no call because I trust him. As long as he was in proper position to do so, which IMO, he was.

Ok, I can live with that. I concur with you sir an official should be able to handle their business in their PCA. The only opposition would be if the play developed outside his PCA but finished in his PCA. I would trust the official whom area it came from take it and live with the call or no call.

My opposition was to your position that if an evaluator came in and question the play the L better "man up" and explain it. It should, IMO come from the person who the play originated from.