End Of Game: NC State v. North Carolina

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Okay with the no call or was that "serious contact" as stated by the announcer?

Definitely a PC foul.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Originally I was thinking PC but looking at the under the basket view I think the offensive player got his head and shoulders past the defender so subsequent contact would then be on the defense, so I think I would go block. Really close play though. I could go either way and be happy with it.

As for the second vid, that ball got knocked away from underneath. A clean strip.

Ha...you call a block on that play and you won't even be working middle school games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Ha...you call a block on that play and you won't even be working middle school games.

Well there are many HS officials (not about him personally) that call a block every they get a chance. So I am not sure about what he would work if he called it that way. Officials at the high school level (and other levels) love to penalize the defense when they are legal.

BTW, I saw nothing close in this play. It was a PC all the way if you are going to call anything.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well there are many HS officials (not about him personally) that call a block every they get a chance. So I am not sure about what he would work if he called it that way. Officials at the high school level (and other levels) love to penalize the defense when they are legal.

BTW, I saw nothing close in this play. It was a PC all the way if you are going to call anything.

Peace

I typically think that PC isn't called enough and is probably the right call on this situation, but no one really commented on the head and shoulders past the defense part. What do you think?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I typically think that PC isn't called enough and is probably the right call on this situation, but no one really commented on the head and shoulders past the defense part. What do you think?

How in the world is his head and shoulders beyond the defender?

All the contact was in the chest, not in the side of the shoulder. I think you are reading too much into the rule if that is your claim for a block IMO.

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Ok. I'll concede. PC

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I typically think that PC isn't called enough and is probably the right call on this situation, but no one really commented on the head and shoulders past the defense part. What do you think?

Head and shoulders is a rule of thumb. There's no way I'm punishing a defender with position just because the dribbler turned himself into a pretzel.

[dahoopref]

Play starts in the T's area and moves into the L's primary area of coverage; not a secondary defender. L appears to have a wide/open look.

In plays like this that have happened to me in the past, if I'm the T and I don't stay connected to the play, I'm trusting the L will make the call....any call. During the pre-game, I tell my crew if a player(s) is on the floor we have to know why he is down there on the floor.

If an evaluator comes in after the game and asks what happened, the L is gonna have to "man-up" and explain his non-call. In any case, I'm gonna trust my partner that the "no-call" at that time was the right decision.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Originally I was thinking PC but looking at the under the basket view I think the offensive player got his head and shoulders past the defender...

It's tough. I think it looks this way from the end line view because the contact already took place and the defender is falling backwards.

I didn't see the game but I respect Len Elmore as an analyst when it comes to the rules. Apart from the fact I thought it was a PC, if he says they put whistles on similar plays earlier in the game I'd like to think there would've been a whistle there as well.

[stiffler3492]

Anyone hear what Digger Phelps said on Sportscenter after this game? It won't surprise anyone...

"Good officials in that situation let 'em play".

Wow. Just wow.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Anyone hear what Digger Phelps said on Sportscenter after this game? It won't surprise anyone...

"Good officials in that situation let 'em play".

Wow. Just wow.

My favorite comeback to "let 'em play" was during last year's Butler/Florida game in the NCAAs between Len Elmore and Reggie Miller. SB Nation broke it down:

With just under five minutes to go in the game, Butler's Andrew Smith picked up an offensive foul hooking Alex Tyus in the post. Miller evidently felt it was a bad call. Elmore didn't, and neither backed down.

ELMORE: These are the kinds of fouls that drive a coach nuts. (Replay shows). You got good position right here, now watch him put his hand around his back right here ...
MILLER (interrupting): Oh, come on.
ELMORE: You can't do it.
MILLER: Come on.
ELMORE: You can't do it. You got to call what you see.
MILLER: Come on now Len.
ELMORE: You sit down, spread out, put him on your back. You don't need to reach around like that.
MILLER: That's not a hook. That's him getting position
ELMORE: But that's him putting his hand behind a guy's back.
GUS JOHNSON (interrupting): According to John Adams, a foul is a foul. You call what you see.
ELMORE (repeating): You call what you see.
REGGIE (a few seconds later): Let these kids play. Let them play. Let them decide.
ELMORE: Let them play fundamentally-sound though. That's not fundamentally sound.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

[A] player for NC State was called for a player control foul earlier on a very similar play I believe. I'd like to see these two plays back to back and see how similar they were if at all.

This is true. It was on the ESPN highlights. It was one of three quick fouls this player picked up in about a minute of play.

Given this call, it makes the decision of a no-call on the final UNC possession really disappointing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

My favorite comeback to "let 'em play" was during last year's Butler/Florida game in the NCAAs between Len Elmore and Reggie Miller. SB Nation broke it down:

Miller is still close to being a player. Elmore was a player and been removed from that part of the game a long time. Also he does not call NBA games like Miller, where it is sport to rip the officials for everything. Elmore is a lawyer and was a prosecutor. I am sure he looks at these things differently because of that background. Not that the rules are the same as law, but what is written can mean something.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Miller is still close to being a player. Elmore was a player and been removed from that part of the game a long time. Also he does not call NBA games like Miller, where it is sport to rip the officials for everything. Elmore is a lawyer and was a prosecutor. I am sure he looks at these things differently because of that background. Not that the rules are the same as law, but what is written can mean something.

Peace

His legal background shows since he actually thinks before he reacts to situations. It might also contribute to his desire to know and understand the rules.

I also think the fact he was an NBA role player contributes to his comments as opposed to Miller being a HoF-calber shooter.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Anyone hear what Digger Phelps said on Sportscenter after this game? It won't surprise anyone...

"Good officials in that situation let 'em play".

Wow. Just wow.

I thought he was gonna punch Fran Frashilla (sp)! Fran kept saying that by NOT calling the PC the officials were NOT letting the players decide the game bc there was good defense played. It got pretty heated and made me think more of Fran and less of Digger!
IMO you have to put that play and call/no call in context of the earlier similar play.