Foul, then goaltending.

[McMac]

Watching the Miami/FSU game currently. Had a play at 14:42 1st half.

FSU player is fouled as shot in the act of shooting on the endline about 8 ft from the rim and a Miami player blocks the try either at the apex or just short of the shot starting to come down towards the rim. There was no call for a goaltend, but if there was, how would it be called? The Lead called the foul if that makes a difference here.

My thinking is this: The C or T official whomever would be responsible for it (which I am not sure) would immediately hit the whistle to signal the goaltend. Let the L take the foul and the awarded basket to the table.

Would there be a difference in how it is handled in Fed?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by McMac

Watching the Miami/FSU game currently. Had a play at 14:42 1st half.

FSU player is fouled as shot in the act of shooting on the endline about 8 ft from the rim and a Miami player blocks the try either at the apex or just short of the shot starting to come down towards the rim. There was no call for a goaltend, but if there was, how would it be called? The Lead called the foul if that makes a difference here.

My thinking is this: The C or T official whomever would be responsible for it (which I am not sure) would immediately hit the whistle to signal the goaltend. Let the L take the foul and the awarded basket to the table.

Would there be a difference in how it is handled in Fed?

This play happened in the 2005 Ontario Provincial High School Championship.

A1 drives baseline from the T's side and gets fouled by a secondary defender in the middle of the lane. L has the whistle. While the ball is on its downward flight, B4 goaltends.

The T waited about 2 seconds after the L's whistle and then had his own whistle and hammered it home. The place went nuts!

To this day, it has been the best call I've seen in a provincial final.

So to answer your question, I think the play would be handled the same way in Fed and NCAA. Just make the GT call before the L reports the foul.

[twocentsworth]

No difference in Fed or NCAA-M. "If" it's goaltending, C or T calls it - scores the basket and have the L report the foul....

[JetMetFan]

The C or T should actually let the L know there was goaltending on the shot. It's up to the L as the calling official to let the scorer's table know whether the goal counts.

[Texas Aggie]

Yes -- the non-foul-calling official who calls goaltending must first check with the foul calling official (in this case, the L) to make sure the L has a shooting foul. He will blow the whistle with the violation signal, catch the L going to the table and tell him what he's got. At that point, the L will count the basket and then report the foul. If for whatever reason, the L has the foul before the shot, he simply reports the foul.

You don't want the T or C to could something then have the L waive it off because the foul was before the shot.

[Scrapper1]

This is one of the few times where it might actually be ok for the Lead to call the goaltending/BI. Since the Lead is the calling official, s/he is following the path of the ball to see if it goes in the basket anyway. So that official will at least have an opinion on whether there is a violation on the play. S/he might not have the best angle, but s/he is looking right at the play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Since the Lead is the calling official, he is following the path of the ball to see if it goes in the basket anyway.

As the lead, we are taught to keep an eye on the fouler, to pick up his number to report, and the foulee, to be able to identify the free throw shooter. We only get a look at the basket with our peripheral vision. There are always a few plays each season where the lead needs help from the trail to be sure that the ball went in the basket. Eye contact becomes very important in these situations. In a simple non basket interference, non goaltending, call, the trail doesn't count the basket, he just informs the lead that the ball went in the hoop. The lead (calling) official will actually "count" the basket. Here, in my little corner of the Constitution State, lead officials are taught in the crib, maybe in the womb, to not look at the basket, and to keep their eyes down at all times.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As the lead, we are taught to keep an eye on the fouler, to pick up his number to report, and the foulee, to be able to identify the free throw shooter. We only get a look at the basket with our peripheral vision. There are always a few plays each season where the lead needs help from the trail to be sure that the basket went in. Eye contact becomes very important in these situations. In a simple non basket interference, non goaltending, call, the trail doesn't count the basket, he just informs the lead that the ball went in the hoop. The lead (calling) official will actually "count" the basket. Here, in my little corner of the Constitution State, lead officials are taught in the crib, maybe in the womb, to not look at the basket, and to keep their eyes down at all times.

There's also the other part of seeing the end of the play to make sure nothing crazy happens. Suppose A1 shoots, B1 fouls, B2 commits goaltending/BI and as the L is watching the flight of the ball...A1 shoves B1 or punches B1 in the face? I had this - without the goaltend/BI - years ago. Luckily I had my eyes on the shooter & defender.

Our partner will tell us whether there was goaltending/BI or if the ball went into the basket. That's part of the job description.