Are every player entitled to a vertical position on the court?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Do you know when an offensive player is posting up a defender, and the defender is leaning over the offensive player's back, and then the offensive player erect his body to create space?

Do you have video tape? Either your description is not clear to me or I would like to see what happened first. Because not being vertical only matters when contact takes place with the non-vertical parts of your body. It sounds to me like the issue is what happened first.

Peace

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do you have video tape? Either your description is not clear to me or I would like to see what happened first. Because not being vertical only matters when contact takes place with the non-vertical parts of your body. It sounds to me like the issue is what happened first.

Peace

I don't have a tape. Just pretend that the offensive post player is bent over and that the defender has his body hovering over the offensive player's bent body. (This is the kind of situation that happens when a small offensive post player accidentally drops the ball, bends over, and then rises up and makes contact with the defender).

Here is a rule from FIBA:

Post play

The principle of verticality (cylinder principle) applies also to post play.

The offensive player in the post position and the defensive player guarding him must respect each other's rights to a vertical position (cylinder).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

I don't have a tape. Just pretend that the offensive post player is bent over and that the defender has his body hovering over the offensive player's bent body. (This is the kind of situation that happens when a small offensive post player accidentally drops the ball, bends over, and then rises up and makes contact with the defender).

Here is a rule from FIBA:

Post play

The principle of verticality (cylinder principle) applies also to post play.

The offensive player in the post position and the defensive player guarding him must respect each other's rights to a vertical position (cylinder).

I honestly could give a damn what the FIBA rule is as I will not see that rules set anytime soon.

And in your situation the defender would be responsible for any contact if it took place and the contact took place with the arms, body or head. But without seeing the play, I cannot tell you why anything was called or not and you seemed to have already come to a conclusion. That is why video tape would be helpful as these plays you described I have seen were not illegal based on the actions that took place. If the defender is hovering over an offensive player, the contact could be legal or incidental.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I honestly could give a damn what the FIBA rule is as I will not see that rules set anytime soon.

And in your situation the defender would be responsible for any contact if it took place and the contact took place with the arms, body or head. But without seeing the play, I cannot tell you why anything was called or not and you seemed to have already come to a conclusion. That is why video tape would be helpful as these plays you described I have seen were not illegal based on the actions that took place. If the defender is hovering over an offensive player, the contact could be legal or incidental.

Peace

Rut:

I am not sure I understand what MWC is trying to ask, but the FIBA rule regarding Principle of Verticality is the same as NFHS and NCAA. I like the FIBA's Cylinder of Verticality (CV) because it gives it a three-dimensional description to the Principle of Verticality (PV).

I find that many time officials think of only of the player's PV as a two-dimensional plane that corresponds to the front of his body as he stands straight up. But CV reminds us that a player is acutally a three-dimensional body and that when a player is bending over he still has vertically rights to the side of him and behind him.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I find that many time officials think of only of the player's PV as a two-dimensional plane that corresponds to the front of his body as he stands straight up. But CV reminds us that a player is acutally a three-dimensional body and that when a player is bending over he still has vertically rights to the side of him and behind him.

MTD, Sr.

That might be the case, but I have never looked at it that way. Verticality does not change based on what part of the body you are located next to. But then again players have a right to not be vertical until their is contact of some kind. Then the non-vertical player is likely responsible for the contact.

Peace