Time Out ?

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For NFHS, it's more than that. Once one of the teams has used a time-out, neither that same team nor the opposing team may be granted another time-out until the clock runs.

Right, neither team may be granted a time out

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Now, is that really true? Does the clock have to run before than can get another timeout?

Only after the end of the forth quarter or an OT period successive timeouts cannot be granted.
5-11-7: Successive time-outs, as in 4-43-2, shall not be granted after the expiration of playing time for the forth quarter or any extra period. In all other instances, they shall be administered in order which they were requested.

The case plays for 5-11-7 clear the idea of one team calling a time-out after the other since 4-43-2 does not clearly define it.

[berserkBBK]

I'm sorry my replies are for NFHS.
NCAA is 5-13-b

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Only after the end of the forth quarter or an OT period successive timeouts cannot be granted.
5-11-7: Successive time-outs, as in 4-43-2, shall not be granted after the expiration of playing time for the forth quarter or any extra period. In all other instances, they shall be administered in order which they were requested.

The case plays for 5-11-7 clear the idea of one team calling a time-out after the other since 4-43-2 does not clearly define it.

My question is about when they may actually call another timeout after the first one has been called. It is it really only possible after the clock has subsequently started, or is it only after the ball has become live to start the (next) OT period? Those two events may not be at the same time.

And FYI, it is not related to the "end of the forth quarter or an OT"....but after time has expired in such a situation but the quarter has not yet ended due to pending FTs.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My question is about when they may actually call another timeout after the first one has been called. It is it really only possible after the clock has subsequently started, or is it only after the ball has become live to start the (next) OT period? Those two events may not be at the same time.

And FYI, it is not related to the "end of the forth quarter or an OT"....but after time has expired in such a situation but the quarter has not yet ended due to pending FTs.

Until the clock has run to begin the extra period. It is better cleared in the case book plays, but I'm not going to type them in this late.

The rule states "after the expiration of playing time in the fourth quarter or any extra period". Unless I am thinking incorrectly, but wouldn't the only time that the fourth quarter is ended without being over and the overtime period not yet begun is if we are shooting free throws? And of course if we are not yet off the playing court after the end of the fourth in a decided game, but then I'm not granting any time-outs to either team.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Until the clock has run to begin the extra period. It is better cleared in the case book plays, but I'm not going to type them in this late.

The rule states "after the expiration of playing time in the fourth quarter or any extra period". Unless I am thinking incorrectly, but wouldn't the only time that the fourth quarter is ended without being over and the overtime period not yet begun is if we are shooting free throws? And of course if we are not yet off the playing court after the end of the fourth in a decided game, but then I'm not granting any time-outs to either team.

I tried to provide a hint...but it was missed.

The rules on when a timeout can be taken don't say anything about the clock starting for the extra period. The next timeout can be called once the ball is live for the extra period. That might occur before the the clock starts for the extra period.

There are several, albeit unlikely, ways you could have a live ball before the clock starts....

• a common foul on the jump before the ball is touched (but after the ball is tossed)
• a jump ball violation before the ball is touched
• a technical foul after the 4th quarter has ended in a tie where you start the OT with FTs for the T.

All of these, create an opportunity for a timeout that is no longer in the window restricted by the successive timeout rule but is before the clock starts again.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I tried to provide a hint...but it was missed.

The rules on when a timeout can be taken don't say anything about the clock starting for the extra period. The next timeout can be called once the ball is live for the extra period. That might occur before the the clock starts for the extra period.

There are several, albeit unlikely, ways you could have a live ball before the clock starts....

• a common foul on the jump before the ball is touched (but after the ball is tossed)
• a jump ball violation before the ball is touched
• a technical foul after the 4th quarter has ended in a tie where you start the OT with FTs for the T.

All of these, create an opportunity for a timeout that is no longer in the window restricted by the successive timeout rule but is before the clock starts again.

Ahhh, I'm still new to the forum and can't be held responsible for knowing everyone's sneaky ways of bringing up further ideas to the rule. Plus it was late so I didn't have my thinking cap on.

With that said, yes those are instances that would make a second TO non successive. Not something I have previously thought, but if it happened I hope I would recognize it on the floor. Even though this is probably a less then once in a career situation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Ahhh, I'm still new to the forum and can't be held responsible for knowing everyone's sneaky ways of bringing up further ideas to the rule. Plus it was late so I didn't have my thinking cap on.

With that said, yes those are instances that would make a second TO non successive. Not something I have previously thought, but if it happened I hope I would recognize it on the floor. Even though this is probably a less then once in a career situation.

The T is only one that that has some reasonable chance of happening.....but the underlying point, one that may be more relevant at other times than in this particular scenario, is that a quarter/OT starts when the ball becomes live, not when the clock starts.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The T is only one that that has some reasonable chance of happening.....but the underlying point, one that may be more relevant at other times than in this particular scenario, is that a quarter/OT starts when the ball becomes live, not when the clock starts.

Is NCAA different?

NFHS 4-43-2: A succesive time-out is one which is granted to either team before the clock has started following the previous time-out.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I tried to provide a hint...but it was missed.

The rules on when a timeout can be taken don't say anything about the clock starting for the extra period.....

The rules don't, but the case plays do.

Originally Posted by Case Book

5.11.7 SITUATION A:

Airborne shooter A1 is fouled by B1 with the try in flight. The horn then sounds ending the fourth quarter playing time. The ball continues its flight and goes through the basket to tie the score. Before A1 attempts the free throw as part of the fourth quarter, Team B captain requests and is *granted a 60-second time-out. Team A or B captain then requests a 30-second time-out during the same dead-ball period.

RULING: The second request is denied. At the end of playing time for the fourth quarter or any overtime period, successive time-outs shall not be granted. This means a time-out cannot be granted either team until the clock has run in the extra period - assuming the free throw is missed. Successive time-outs may be granted in all situations except after time has expired in the fourth quarter or any extra period.

5.11.7 SITUATION B:

Following the expiration of time for the first extra period, the coach of Team B is charged with a technical foul. Team B requests a time-out before the free throws are administered to start the second extra period. The time-out request is granted. Thereafter, the official administers the first free throw to A1. Following the attempt: (a) Team B; or (b) Team A, then requests a time-out.

RULING: The request cannot be granted in either (a) or (b), as it would be considered a successive time-out. The fact that the ball did become live between the two requests has no bearing on the ruling. Another time-out request by either team cannot be honored until after the clock has started in the second extra period.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The rules don't, but the case plays do.

I stand corrected.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The rules don't, but the case plays do.

And actually I'm wrong with my statement above, the rules do also, 4-43-2 as noted by a couple other posters.