Clean Block or a Foul?

[rockyroad]

OK, not trying to be a jerk here, but is anyone else seeing what bainsey is saying? Honest question because maybe I am missing it somehow...I just don't see the defender jumping into the shooter - I see it the other way entirely.

Anyone else see the defender jumping into the shooter?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

OK, not trying to be a jerk here, but is anyone else seeing what bainsey is saying? Honest question because maybe I am missing it somehow...I just don't see the defender jumping into the shooter - I see it the other way entirely.

Anyone else see the defender jumping into the shooter?

I see the defender jumping back and to his right, towards the lead official.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see the defender jumping back and to his right, towards the lead official.

Thats what I saw too, more importantly, I saw dude get his shot REjected before any body contact took place.

[M&M Guy]

Maybe I can shed a little light on bainsey's position. Once upon a time, I would've easily called the foul on the defender, because I was watching the offensive player all the way to the basket, saw contact with the defender, and the offensive player went down after the contact. I used to be the one to "sell" that body contact.

Over time, I've evolved my thinking to concentrate a little more on the defender, and to not penalize them if they didn't do anything wrong, by rule. We've concentrated so much on the phrase "protect the shooters" that I think it has unfairly penalized good defense. This play is a good example of the defense not really doing anything wrong which leads to a lot of incidental contact.

bainsey - don't take the "high school official" comment too seriously, but approach it from the standpoint that maybe you can adjust your thinking on plays like this, and maybe it will help your overall play calling and career.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

OK, not trying to be a jerk here, but is anyone else seeing what bainsey is saying? Honest question because maybe I am missing it somehow...I just don't see the defender jumping into the shooter - I see it the other way entirely.

Anyone else see the defender jumping into the shooter?

If we have to use a Cathetometer to determine if and how a defender is going forward, then we really need to pass on that play. I see a offensive player that was coming forward and got his shot blocked and would have made contact with the defender regardless of what the defender did on this play. And because of that fact, the contact is totally incidental. The contact did not prevent the player from landing normally than he would have or prevent him from playing in the game. When someone blocks your shot, you tend to be off balance as you were trying to avoid the block in the first place. This would be a JV call to a foul on this particular play.

Peace

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

OK, not trying to be a jerk here, but is anyone else seeing what bainsey is saying? Honest question because maybe I am missing it somehow...I just don't see the defender jumping into the shooter - I see it the other way entirely.

Anyone else see the defender jumping into the shooter?

I do. Details-
B1 -KU-0 jumps from RA toward the sideline putting himself into A1 path, my guestimate is about 2 feet of actual floor distance (B1 would have landed outside the RA with no contact from A1, enough to go into A1's path). A1 and B1 make contact,
A1's contact was lower on B1 causing B1's feet to land nearer the endline, but offbalance stumbling forward as his upperbody is farther forward.
Look past B1, at the blue lights/windows in the distance, can't see them now you do, B1 was moving forward.

I am a KU fan and was surprised no foul was called after seeing APG's replay.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I do. Details-
B1 -KU-0 jumps from RA toward the sideline putting himself into A1 path, my guestimate is about 2 feet of actual floor distance (B1 would have landed outside the RA with no contact from A1, enough to go into A1's path). A1 and B1 make contact,
A1's contact was lower on B1 causing B1's feet to land nearer the endline, but offbalance stumbling forward as his upperbody is farther forward.
Look past B1, at the blue lights/windows in the distance, can't see them now you do, B1 was moving forward.

I am a KU fan and was surprised no foul was called after seeing APG's replay.

If you are having to do a measurement based on slow motion measuring of the blue lights and windows in the far background, then the defender did nothing wrong. The shooter created the contact and the ball was blocked cleanly. I still say this was a great no-call by the crew. Kudos to them for having patient whistles on this play.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If you are having to do a measurement based on slow motion measuring of the blue lights and windows in the far background, then the defender did nothing wrong. The shooter created the contact and the ball was blocked cleanly. I still say this was a great no-call by the crew. Kudos to them for having patient whistles on this play.

I did not have to. I mentioned them as demonstrable evidence that what i saw is correct. Also the Red Avis advertisement in the corner-tunnel at the KU end of the court. Samething, now you see it, now you don't. Visual evidence that what I saw on my first look is correct and confirmed.

Tell me how I am wrong about B1 not going straight-up. Shoot down my evidence instead of shooting me down because I used that same evidence.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I did not have to. I mentioned them as demonstrable evidence that what i saw is correct. Also the Red Avis advertisement in the corner-tunnel at the KU end of the court. Samething, now you see it, now you don't. Visual evidence that what I saw on my first look is correct and confirmed.

Tell me how I am wrong about B1 not going straight-up. Shoot down my evidence instead of shooting me down because I used that same evidence.

Didn't shoot you down. Just disagreed with you...the contact was created by the shooter, imho.