Basket Counts ?

[bd41flpk]

I realize that this is probably more of a 'test question' rather than a situation that is less likely to occur? Then again, as they say, anything can happen in our game and we have to be prepared.

Does the basket count?

1 second left in a quarter/half/game, and A1 jumps to release a 'try for goal'. After the ball leaves A1's hand, the horn now goes off. After the horn goes off the ball is 'deflected' (on its upward flight) by either A2 or B2 and the ball then goes into the basket.

I say the goal counts since neither the horn nor the 'deflection' causes the ball to become dead.

Rule references are appreciated.

Thanks !

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

I say the goal counts since neither the horn nor the 'deflection' causes the ball to become dead.

Rule references are appreciated.

Thanks !

Not a BB ref ... but from reading here, I'm betting that off A2 the basket is no good, but off B2 it is.

My logic? If it goes off A2, who gets credit for the basket (assuming this happened in the middle of the quarter) -- A2. This "tip" or "redirect" makes it A2's shot. If it goes off B2, it's still A1's shot.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not a BB ref ... but from reading here, I'm betting that off A2 the basket is no good, but off B2 it is.

My logic? If it goes off A2, who gets credit for the basket (assuming this happened in the middle of the quarter) -- A2. This "tip" or "redirect" makes it A2's shot. If it goes off B2, it's still A1's shot.

correct

[JetMetFan]

4.41.4 SITUATION A:

While the ball is in flight on a try for goal by A1: (a) B1 *touches the ball and then time expires; or (b) time expires and then B1 touches the ball. The ball continues in flight and enters Team A's basket.

RULING: The goal is scored in both (a) and (b), as B1's touching did not cause the try to end. However, in both (a) and (b), if B1's touching is either goaltending or basket interference, the ball becomes dead and two points will be awarded. (6-7-9 Exception a; 9-11, 9-12)

[bd41flpk]

Originally Posted by just another ref

correct

Just trying to understand why A2's 'deflection' is considered a 'try' so as to make the ball 'dead'?

Any rule references to this?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Any rule references to this?

The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the
throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball
becomes dead.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the
throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball
becomes dead.

Certainly a rule reference, it just doesn't say what he's asking.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Just trying to understand why A2's 'deflection' is considered a 'try' so as to make the ball 'dead'?

Any rule references to this?

When A1's try touches A2's hand, it becomes a pass. The deflection by A2 is a tap, which came after the ball was dead.

[Adam]

Based on what rule?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Based on what rule?

Definition of pass: ball thrown, bounced, rolled, to another player.......


If not that, what is it? For once, I'm open to suggestion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If not that, what is it? For once, I'm open to suggestion.

Me too. I'm having a brain cramp and can't think of anything that differentiates between the taps by A1 or B1.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Me too. I'm having a brain cramp and can't think of anything that differentiates between the taps by A1 or B1.

There's a case play which tells us that when the 3 attempt is touched by the teammate inside the arc it counts 2, so I'm applying that logic here, took some liberty in calling it a pass, maybe. But, what else could it be?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Based on what rule?

Interestingly, neither the NFHS nor the NCAA case book deals with this situation specifically. The closest they come is a try ending when it's apparent it won't be successful.

I think the only way it would happen is if A1 put up a try and while it was on its way up - and near the basket - A2 tried a tap dunk to make sure it goes in. That would seem to satisfy 4-41-1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the
throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball
becomes dead.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Certainly a rule reference, it just doesn't say what he's asking.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The closest they come is a try ending when it's apparent it won't be successful.

I thought that it was a relevant citation. So did JetMetFan.

Originally Posted by just another ref

There's a case play which tells us that when the 3 attempt is touched by the teammate inside the arc it counts 2, so I'm applying that logic here, took some liberty in calling it a pass, maybe. But, what else could it be?

just another ref's post is worth further investigation. At this point, I don't have a strong opinion, so I'll just sit back and be a spectator. Extra butter, please.

[bd41flpk]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I thought that it was a relevant citation. So did JetMetFan.



just another ref's post is worth further investigation. At this point, I don't have a strong opinion, so I'll just sit back and be a spectator. Extra butter, please.

Thanks for the Rule references....

When I read Rule 6.7 Art 9 (Exception) - it reads that the '...ball does not become dead until until the try or tap ends...' So does the touch of A2 cause the original 'try' to end? IMHO - I think not.

Also, in the same section, the Note: If A1's try is "legally" touched in flight (does not differentiate by whom), the goal counts if made, if the period ends BEFORE or AFTER the legal touching.

This tells me that the 'legal touch' by A2 would still allow the goal to count either before/after the period ending w/the horn sounding.

Hence, in both scenarios A2 or B2 'legal' touch (according to the rules) appears to allow the goal to count !