Flop

[Art N]

[QUOTE=M&M Guy;826587]While I'm all for "majority rules", (and especially for anything that helps make rocky grumpy ), I understand where Scrapper is coming from. I believe the section of the rule he is basing his opinion is 4-23-4(b): "If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor." It doesn't say legal guarding position, only legal position. In other words, it appears it doesn't matter if the defender had legal guarding position established or not, or is maintaining it or not, only that the defender be in the landing spot before the offensive player leaves the ground.

Nice job M&M bringing this into the discussion. If B1 was standing still near, under (NFHS)... the hoop and is NOT facing A1 and A1 goes airborne and crashes into B1 when landing, then I hope we call a PC foul. (I've spoken with some that think B1 needs to be facing A1, i.e. needs to LGP!).

Now to help clear this up to those NON-BELIEVERS , let's make a change to the OP. Let's say B1 has LGP AND she doesn't flop and fall on the floor but backs up (to avoid collision...) to the SAME spot where you pictured her laying on the floor. Now A1 lands on/into B1. What would you call?
PC foul I hope. Then why in the wide, wide world of sports wouldn't you call the same thing when she is on the floor and gets croaked? Because you think she's trying to get an Academy Award? I say "Nay-Nay, that's not a requirement."

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Art N

Let's say B1 has LGP AND she doesn't flop and fall on the floor but backs up (to avoid collision...) to the SAME spot where you pictured her laying on the floor. Now A1 lands on/into B1. What would you call?

Block. Once a player is airborne, if the defensive player moves to a new spot, the defender is responsible for the contact.

"If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Block. Once a player is airborne, if the defensive player moves to a new spot, the defender is responsible for the contact.

"If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor."

Once LGP is established, a player may....
Are you saying that doesn't apply, and that somehow their position becomes illegal even if they have LGP?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Once LGP is established, a player may....
Are you saying that doesn't apply, and that somehow their position becomes illegal even if they have LGP?

I'm saying that in order for it to be a legal position, you have to be in that position before the opponent becomes airborne.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'm saying that in order for it to be a legal position, you have to be in that position before the opponent becomes airborne.

I want to make sure we're picturing this the same; does your ruling require that A1 leap over the top of B1's initial position. IOW, if B1 hadn't moved, there would have been no contact.

[Scrapper1]

You don't have to picture anything. If you move to a different position after I'm airborne, you're responsible for any contact that occurs.

"If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor."

[Art N]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You don't have to picture anything. If you move to a different position after I'm airborne, you're responsible for any contact that occurs.

"If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor."

Not true. I can back up and be moving and if you croak me, there better be a PC foul. If I'm the defensive coach, I am getting a T called on me if you call that a block b/c you kicked the call big time and my player could have gotten hurt as well.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You don't have to picture anything. If you move to a different position after I'm airborne, you're responsible for any contact that occurs.

"If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor."

And you're saying that LGP goes out the window with an airborne shooter?

[Art N]

[QUOTE=Scrapper1;826616]Block. Once a player is airborne, if the defensive player moves to a new spot, the defender is responsible for the contact.

That is NOT entirely true! If you are picturing B1 sliding sideways under an airborne A1, yes, but I don't believe that is we have been talking about.

Once LPG has been initially established, he/she may move sideways, obliquely, and backwards to guard a player. If A1 is driving to the hoop and goes airborne and B1, who is in front of him and had LGP, then moves backwards and gets croaked (even if B1 is moving) it is a PC foul all the way. Too many coaches and newbie refs think B1 can't be moving at all! Another MYTH.

[Adam]

Slightly different play again:
B1 sprinting down on D to get into position. Turns, and establishes LGP just before A1 takes off.
B1 never really gets stopped, though, and takes a couple of steps backwards due to momentum while A1 is in the air.
Had he not moved, A1 would have contacted him almost immediately after takeoff; but the movement delayed contact by about half a second.

Who calls a block because B1 got to a "different spot" after A1 was airborne?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

The points regarding maintaining LGP are in 4-23-3, however, the only mention of an airborne player with the ball is in a different section, 4-23-4. This tells me an airborne player is to be ruled differently than simply maintaing LGP.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I agree with you and with Scrappy-Doo. Once airborne, the defender can't move himself into a new spot hoping to get landed on...

So what's your ruling?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Slightly different play again:
B1 sprinting down on D to get into position. Turns, and establishes LGP just before A1 takes off.
B1 never really gets stopped, though, and takes a couple of steps backwards due to momentum while A1 is in the air.
Had he not moved, A1 would have contacted him almost immediately after takeoff; but the movement delayed contact by about half a second.

Who calls a block because B1 got to a "different spot" after A1 was airborne?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So what's your ruling?

As described, block. If I would've called a PC, it may have been a call I could sell, but it would be wrong, by rule.

I would've answered sooner, but I was cleaning cookie crumbs out of my keyboard.