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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:04pm
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Uncalled Cheap Shots

Boy, saw this yesterday...Thoughts or comments? Maybe this is what happens when they fire CHSEagle?!?!?

Flagrant foul no-calls Highland @ Connell 12/22/11 - YouTube
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:09pm
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:22pm
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#34 is a thug. Foul #5 was brutal.

Refs gotta take care of business here.

Where's the coach in all this?
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:23pm
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Plays two and six, I have nothing in of themselves. The other plays, at minimum would be an intentional foul in my book in of themselves (with the fifth play being a straight flagrant by itself) but since we have number 34 for white not seemingly attempting to play any legit defense, he would have been tossed well before we got to those other plays.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Plays two and six, I have nothing in of themselves. The other plays, at minimum would be an intentional foul in my book in of themselves (with the fifth play being a straight flagrant by itself) but since we have number 34 for white not seemingly attempting to play any legit defense, he would have been tossed well before we got to those other plays.
Agreed.

I'm amazed that the officials did not take care of #34, if not the first time then absolutely by the second time he committed a non-basketball act. After play #5 you see one of the officials talking to him and then kind of smiling and patting him on the back. WAY too little WAY too late!

Equally amazed that red did not retaliate. When I played in HS, there is no way we would have let opponents take cheap shots like that. I credit them for their restraint but 9 times out of 10 a fight breaks out in a situation like this. And after the 2nd time I wouldn't have faulted any kid on red for standing up for himself and his team. As the opposing coach I probably would have been ejected for walking down to the other sideline and handling business myself.

And the coach of the white team should be ashamed of himself. No way those two should have been allowed to play like that. It makes me assume that they were coached to play that way to intimidate opponents.

That's not basketball. It's two oversized teenagers being punks/bullies on the court.

Dangerous situation and the adults involved failed the red team miserably. Extremely fortunate that nobody was hurt and that an all out brawl didnt occur.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 08:31pm
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The bottom line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaterp View Post
dangerous situation and the adults involved failed the red team miserably.
+1.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 08:51pm
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On first viewing, I had #2 and #6 as common fouls, #5 as flagrant, and the rest intentional.

I would've been looking quite closely at 34 and 42 and they wouldn't have played a lot of minutes -- either after getting ejected or picking up a few quick fouls.

No real urgency with the officials -- on hard fouls like that you'd expect at least 2 of the officials to close distance quickly to make sure things don't escalate. But here, nothing.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 08:51pm
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I'm sorry, but if they are in chronological order and after I saw #1, #3 becomes flagrant and #34 is gone.

Oblivious? After #5, the one everyone agrees is the only flagrant foul, the C comes in for a chat with #34. Looked like a pleasant conversation with possibly a little pat on the fanny.

Last edited by BLydic; Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 08:58pm.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 10:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Plays two and six, I have nothing in of themselves. The other plays, at minimum would be an intentional foul in my book in of themselves (with the fifth play being a straight flagrant by itself) but since we have number 34 for white not seemingly attempting to play any legit defense, he would have been tossed well before we got to those other plays.
More or less the way I saw it....2, maybe 3, are just common fouls. Hard, yes, but not meeting the definition of intentional. A couple are intentional. One, maybe two could/would be flagrant.

They're certainly not all flagrant as the video suggests.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 11:06pm
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Potential flop??

On foul #6, it also looks as if Red 34 feigns getting hit hard to cause the game clock to get stopped. White 34 did graze Red 34, but not hard enough to be knocked down with the force that supposedly happened.

Couldn't an Intentional be called against Red 34 then?
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Couldn't an Intentional be called against Red 34 then?
No.

And holy crap, he's not feigning anything. You can't fake that sort of physical reaction while in the air.
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Last edited by Adam; Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 11:18pm.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 11:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
More or less the way I saw it....2, maybe 3, are just common fouls. Hard, yes, but not meeting the definition of intentional. A couple are intentional. One, maybe two could/would be flagrant.

They're certainly not all flagrant as the video suggests.
From the film, there is malicious intent in every one of them. Individually, a couple of them may be regular fouls. In the context, they are all intentional, IMO, with one flagrant. Not one of them is a basketball play.

The school should be ashamed. So should the officials, but the film indicates they think everything was fine from their perspective. I wonder if the supervisor will pull games. Clearly, these guys cannot work at the high school level without strong supervision.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 11:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
From the film, there is malicious intent in every one of them. Individually, a couple of them may be regular fouls. In the context, they are all intentional, IMO, with one flagrant. Not one of them is a basketball play.

The school should be ashamed. So should the officials, but the film indicates they think everything was fine from their perspective. I wonder if the supervisor will pull games. Clearly, these guys cannot work at the high school level without strong supervision.
Wow. I'm going to have to watch the video, but there may not be an actual supervisor.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
From the film, there is malicious intent in every one of them. Individually, a couple of them may be regular fouls. In the context, they are all intentional, IMO, with one flagrant. Not one of them is a basketball play.

The school should be ashamed. So should the officials, but the film indicates they think everything was fine from their perspective. I wonder if the supervisor will pull games. Clearly, these guys cannot work at the high school level without strong supervision.
"In context?" WTH does that mean? You can't make the first call in context. They're two different players, and you can't punish #42's hard foul based on #34's previous fouls.

Assuming these were all in order, #34 would have been gone (flagrant) after his third foul. The first one was borderline intentional (not flagrant at all, by itself) and I may not have gone with an intentional that quickly. But his second one would be inentional and I would have easily gone flagrant by his third. It's possible I would have gone flagrant on his second one, he's going right through the opponent and not really even paying attention.

#42's two-hand shove with full extension is easily an intentional, but his first foul is just a hard foul.
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Old Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:26pm
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
Boy, saw this yesterday...Thoughts or comments? Maybe this is what happens when they fire CHSEagle?!?!?

Flagrant foul no-calls Highland @ Connell 12/22/11 - YouTube
Frightening. Best thing I ever picked up at a camp was from a D1 official who said identify a troublemaker and get him out of there. 34 certainly is a troublemaker
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