What do you got?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I went off of one look without reading anyone else's opinion on it. It seemed pretty obvious at first...especially with the OP asking if the lead could have helped (which kind of framed my viewing of the play). Upon further review, it's not as obvious.

Well, I thought no possible way was it good, but after watching several times, it's hard to tell. the fact none of the players, officials and even a delayed reaction from coach has me heavily leaning towards a miss.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Well, I thought no possible way was it good, but after watching several times, it's hard to tell. the fact none of the players, officials and even a delayed reaction from coach has me heavily leaning towards a miss.

I think it went in based on watching the video a couple times but as I said earlier on my first viewing I didn't realize it went in and our camera angle is in line with the C so I can see how he missed it. The kid who rebounded the ball didn't think it went in, he was looking at the offensive player jumping towards the rim and then all of a sudden the ball is in his hands.

Just a weird play. I watched a special one night about how sometimes our brains register what we expect to see and not what really happened. If the C is not expecting the ball to go in the basket and then ball takes a funny trajectory not normal for a made basket then his brain might just not have registered that the ball went through the basket.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think it went in based on watching the video a couple times but as I said earlier on my first viewing I didn't realize it went in and our camera angle is in line with the C so I can see how he missed it. The kid who rebounded the ball didn't think it went in, he was looking at the offensive player jumping towards the rim and then all of a sudden the ball is in his hands.

Just a weird play. I watched a special one night about how sometimes our brains register what we expect to see and not what really happened. If the C is not expecting the ball to go in the basket and then ball takes a funny trajectory not normal for a made basket then his brain might just not have registered that the ball went through the basket.

That, and good officiating has us working the rebounding action and not following the ball into the basket unless we think there's a real chance for goaltending or interference.

At least once or twice a season I have no clue that a ball went in when a foul was called. Fortunately, it hasn't come to me counting one that didn't go in or vice versa in 25 years, but it's one of those things I'm afraid could happen, especially working 2-person mechanics.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That, and good officiating has us working the rebounding action and not following the ball into the basket unless we think there's a real chance for goaltending or interference.

At least once or twice a season I have no clue that a ball went in when a foul was called. Fortunately, it hasn't come to me counting one that didn't go in or vice versa in 25 years, but it's one of those things I'm afraid could happen, especially working 2-person mechanics.

This is a 3 person game however, the trail probably had the best angle, opposite the camera angle. If the ball had hit the rim, or fell short he would have seen it. The Head Coach also has that same angle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Toren

This is a 3 person game however, the trail probably had the best angle, opposite the camera angle. If the ball had hit the rim, or fell short he would have seen it. The Head Coach also has that same angle.

Except that even the trail isn't going have laser-like focus on the ball unless he's willing to ignore his other responsibilities.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That, and good officiating has us working the rebounding action and not following the ball into the basket unless we think there's a real chance for goaltending or interference.

At least once or twice a season I have no clue that a ball went in when a foul was called. Fortunately, it hasn't come to me counting one that didn't go in or vice versa in 25 years, but it's one of those things I'm afraid could happen, especially working 2-person mechanics.

...because when I'm at lead in 2-man there are several times I've not known the basket was scored, and, depending on the partner, have had to check with the table.

As for this video, the C is right in the play (after the shot, you can make out the top of his head). To me, it didn't look like it went; it looked like BI and the ball hit off the arm of the player who was trying to get the pass.

There are occasions where I've been at lead in 3-man, and feeling the trail wasn't going to make it into the play I've eased up to get an angle on the potential shooter and defender, but this wasn't that type of breakaway. I don't know how the trail didn't have some real knowledge on what happened.

Until a better video comes along, I'll trust the judgment of the guys who were there.

[BillyMac]

I've screwed it up both ways. As the lead, using my peripheral vision, I thought that the ball went in when it actually just flicked the net, and I thought that the ball didn't go in when it actually went through a very loose net like a bat out of hell. Officiate for over thirty years, and you'll probably see everything at least once.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

Until a better video comes along, I'll trust the judgment of the guys who were there.

A better video? This one clearly shows everything! We shouldn't need a zoomed-in camera on the basket to be able to tell it went in!

Here are the freeze frames for those that are still questioning it!

The ball headed towards the basket...



The ball entering the basket — note the position of the ball just inside the rim...



The ball IN the basket!!



If anyone still wants to say they are not sure after that, I have no idea what to tell you!!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Brad

A better video? This one clearly shows everything! We shouldn't need a zoomed-in camera on the basket to be able to tell it went in!

Here are the freeze frames for those that are still questioning it!

The ball headed towards the basket...


The ball entering the basket — note the position of the ball just inside the rim...


The ball IN the basket!!


If anyone still wants to say they are not sure after that, I have no idea what to tell you!!

While I believe the ball when in, those still shots are not at all conclusive. They're too grainy to tell whether the ball is in the basket or in front of it. I think the more telling evidence is how the ball changes path as it passes the rim and the net action....in a way that was consistent only with having gone in.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While I believe the ball when in, those still shots are not at all conclusive. They're too grainy to tell whether the ball is in the basket or in front of it. I think the more telling evidence is how the ball changes path as it passes the rim and the net action....in a way that was consistent only with having gone in.

The second photo CLEARLY shows that the ball is within the cylinder. And the third photo you can see that the orange RIM is in FRONT of the ball —*if the ball was in front of the rim, you wouldn't see the rim, you'd see the ball.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While I believe the ball when in, those still shots are not at all conclusive. They're too grainy to tell whether the ball is in the basket or in front of it. I think the more telling evidence is how the ball changes path as it passes the rim and the net action....in a way that was consistent only with having gone in.

Get real. It is fine and dandy to say we should not NEED the still shots to determine that the ball went in, BUT to say the pictures are "too grainy" to be conclusive, is just silly.

[Brad]

One more thing. The lead knew it went in — I guarantee you. Watch his body language.

What do you normally do on a steal? You immediately start sprinting the other way. He knew the ball went in and was clearly waiting for the team to take it out of bounds.

This is from about two seconds after the white player grabs the ball and the referee still has not moved an inch and is just standing there waiting...

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by fullor30

well, i thought no possible way was it good, but after watching several times, it's hard to tell. The fact none of the players, officials and even a delayed reaction from coach has me heavily leaning towards a miss.

+1

[bob jenkins]

+2

and, a tale from the opposite side:

I'm lead. Ball is shot, seems (in my peripheral vision) to "check up" and falls straight down. Bounces twice. 8 players head back to the other end of the court. B1 heads for the ball with no real sense of urgency. Grabs the ball and nonchalantly tosses it to B2 who hasn't moved much. B2 starts to dribble up the court.

I blow the whistle for a throw-in violation. Partner gently informs me that the shot was missed.

[fiasco]

After watching it several times, I have no doubt it went in.

If it didn't go in, that ball has to be a long lost relative of the JFK magic bullet, because its path defies logic otherwise.

You'll also notice the player who collects the ball wasn't even looking up at the basket. He was watching the mess of players in the air flying past the basket. He just sees the ball come bouncing back at him and assumes the shot didn't go in. The player to his right (21) did watch the ball go through, and he starts walking toward the endline to start a throw in. He's clearly confused when he watches his teammate just start dribbling up the floor.

The ball went in.