Rsbq

[tref]

I think you guys are putting too much into something you already unknowingly do.

You're T & A1 shakes B1 & gets by him on a drive to the rack...

Are you still looking at B1 or do you find the next guy that could hurt you??
-----------------------------------------------

You're the L & A1 shakes B1 & gets by him on a drive to the rack from the Cs area...

Aren't you in the paint identifying that next defender??



We should be picking up 2ndary defenders at any level we currently work.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There it is.

When you consider the pools of college vs. high school officials -- and their corresponding experience -- I think you're going to find it much tougher for high school officials to identify a secondary defender, especially considering there is no such definition.

I still don't see the point of the RA, anyway. If you obtain LGP after the shooter leaves the floor, by rule, it's a block.

Except there's a definition of secondary defender in the NCAA rulebook. Could easily be copied into the NFHS rulebook if they wanted to.

I'm not a fan of B1 putting himself in A1's landing spot. To me, it's dangerous and B1 could've just as easily stepped up and established LGP in many circumstances.

I like the RA, but I don't think it's a no brainer to call in some circumstances.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by tref

Although I'm thrilled that the concept of RSBQ & SDF is finally being applied at the HS level, but it seems as though its being applied or interpreted incorrectly.

RSBQ - Deals with a ball handler, generally on the perimeter.
SDF - Deals with a would-be shooter on drives to the basket, below the FT line extended.
Advantage/Disadvantage - Everything else falls under this, from the sound of the OP it doesnt seem like anyone was disadvantaged... play on!
Possession consequence or clean up - This applied to rebounding situations.

Help..what is SDF..stand for??

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Help..what is SDF..stand for??

Start...Develop...Finish. More camp-speak: see the whole play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Help..what is SDF..stand for??

Start
Develope
Finish

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm not a fan of B1 putting himself in A1's landing spot. To me, it's dangerous and B1 could've just as easily stepped up and established LGP in many circumstances.

Right, and unless A1 is kicking his legs on the way (which doesn't happen), it's always a block, period. Be it primary, secondary, or quinary defender, it's a block. For that reason, I still don't get what the RA accomplishes.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, and unless A1 is kicking his legs on the way (which doesn't happen), it's always a block, period. Be it primary, secondary, or quinary defender, it's a block. For that reason, I still don't get what the RA accomplishes.

It deters the defense from attempting to take charges in the 3'/4' RA.
Reduces potential injuries to the offense & defense in the heart of the paint.
Promotes scoring.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, and unless A1 is kicking his legs on the way (which doesn't happen), it's always a block, period. Be it primary, secondary, or quinary defender, it's a block. For that reason, I still don't get what the RA accomplishes.

No, it's not -- if you're currently calling NFHS rules. I call that a PC foul every time. However, I'd be happy if they change the rule to match the NCAA/NBA.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

No, it's not -- if you're currently calling NFHS rules.

Are we on the same page here?

If a defender establishes LGP after a shooter leaves the floor, and contact takes place, by rule, it's a block.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Well I stand corrected with regard to NCAA-W. At every other level, I've read/heard that either formally or informally, many felt that standing right near the basket wasn't "legitimate" defense...and why part of the rule states that defenders are allowed to jump up, in an attempt to block the ball, whilst in the RA since that is seen as playing "legitimate" defense.

They may have stated that....but underneath it all, it was about scoring.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

They may have stated that....but underneath it all, it was about scoring.

Yes, it is a byproduct of the rule...one that I'm guessing most people are happy with. Offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tref

The ol' "nice move kid & great head fake as well, now take it out & try it again" call?

Not if Team A is in the bonus.

MTD, Sr.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Are we on the same page here?

If a defender establishes LGP after a shooter leaves the floor, and contact takes place, by rule, it's a block.

That's not what the rule is. The rules say the guard is responsible for the contact in that situation. The contact must hinder in the opponent from preforming his normal movements for it to be a foul.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Everybody listen up: The key to this play is the Principal of Verticality.

It does not matter if V2 was jumping over H1 when he put his two hands on H1's back or he was standing next to H1 when he put his two hands on H1's back. V2's contact with H1 prevented H1 from standing up within his Cylinder of Verticality.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. See the following:

NFHS R10-S6-A3: "A player shall not use his/her hands on an opponent in any way that inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent or acts as an aid to a player in starting or stopping."

NCAA R10-S1-A3: "A player shall not use his or her hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom of movement of the opponent in any way or to aid an opponent in starting or stopping."

These same concepts of principal of verticality and moving within it can apply to what fans call over the back. Now we all know its not a foul, but if B1 puts his arms over A1's back shouldn't you call a foul because A1 might have jumped and B1's arms in A1's vertical space prevented it.

Just saying. It is a slippery slope if you are going to call fouls on what a player may have been prevented from doing if he had tried doing it. Call what did happen and not what might have happened. This is a good no call if there was no displacement. What if this had happened in a 1 point ball game with 10 seconds and the player could have passed the ball up ahead to a waiting team mate for the winning bucket? If you call the foul when the player was not disadvantaged then you prevent them from possibly winning the game. Incidental contact is defined as contact that does not rise to the point of a foul and does not prevent a defensive or offensive player from performing his/her duties. This is a paraphrase of course, but that is basically the idea of incidental contact. It seems like this was just incidental contact, unless you are of the opinion that "two of anything" in contact with the player with the ball is ALWAYS a foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Are we on the same page here?

If a defender establishes LGP after a shooter leaves the floor, and contact takes place, by rule, it's a block.

A defender can't establish LGP after the shooter leaves the floor, so your statement makes no sense.