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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:40am
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Just the T, or straight to the bench?

Just wondering if anyone would have sent this girl straight to the bench…

3rd quarter, JV girls. From trail, I whistle H1 as she hits V1, forearm to forearm, while V1 is in the air shooting. I tell partner what I’ve got & who’s shooting, then report. As I turn to move into position for the free throws, I’m met by H2 who asks (unemotionally, if not politely) “where did she get her?” In stride as I move toward my spot, I reply “she got her on the arm.” H2 then points & follows up with (now in a sarcastic tone – not that it would necessarily matter) “you saw that from over there?”… I hit the whistle and signal her T without hesitation and get to report yet again. Before I go into the “rest of the story” (because then it got interesting with the coach, too…) I wanted to ask here: how many out there, if any, might have tossed her for a comment like that?… How many, if any, just let it go without even the T?...

Then the fun continued…
When the foul was originally whistled, HC complained, but not overly-so. As I turn to report the T on H2, she’s againl complaining and now wants a time-out (obviously, to “visit” about the call…) Me: “just a moment coach” and I report the T on H2. Coach: “Time-out”… and begins to ask about the call. Me: “30 or full, coach?” She responds with “full”, as expected, and I get that reported & signal the timekeeper to start. Coach now asks ask where she got her… how could we foul that girl on the arm when she’s 6’2”?… etc.… Doesn’t apparently care for my calm, matter-of-fact answer. I tell her “that’s enough coach – no more.” As she turns to head to her team she gives me a “you guys need to call it both ways!” Whistle up to my mouth, whack, report, and now we’re shooting the 2 foul shots followed by 4 tech free throws. (She actually thenput her own seatbelt on and never said a peep after that.)

Yet another side-note to a very interesting quarter… HC never bothered to ask or apparently care about the conduct of H2. She’s still on the floor and about 3 or 4 possessions later we double-whistle her for an obvious foul on a shooter. Ball lands near her in the lane and she flings it two-handed at an angle toward the baseline. Partner is first to his whistle for that whack, and now H2 is done for the evening.

Good stuff.
(Oh, and the visitors hit 5 of their 6 technical f-t's... won the game by 3.)

Last edited by Lukester; Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 11:00am. Reason: Final score:
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:49am
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Just the T. Nothing flagrant about that.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:49am
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First one on H2 is just a T, IMO.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:52am
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depending on how loud her original response was, i'd say you were a little quick with the first technical.

obviously if the sarcastic tone you mentioned came with volume loud enough for most of the gym to hear, then yes, call the technical. but if it was quiet, i'd be more likely to just say 'yes i did see that from there. you play the game, i'll worry about what i see.'

i apologize for my lack of capitalization. the computer i'm on does not have a working shift key.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:56am
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Originally Posted by stiffler3492 View Post
depending on how loud her original response was, i'd say you were a little quick with the first technical.

obviously if the sarcastic tone you mentioned came with volume loud enough for most of the gym to hear, then yes, call the technical. but if it was quiet, i'd be more likely to just say 'yes i did see that from there. you play the game, i'll worry about what i see.'

i apologize for my lack of capitalization. the computer i'm on does not have a working shift key.
Sorry, but there's almost zero chance this doesn't get a T from me or anyone in my association. A coach can ask politely about my positioning, but a player doesn't get to do it disrespectfully.

And volume isn't definitive.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:58am
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1) Too quick with the T, imo.

2) Acknowledge the request with a "I'll be glad to talk to you about the call, coach, as soon as I get the TO administered -- do you want a full or a 30?"
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:59am
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Flagrant wouldn't enter my mind at all in this situation, but it's a definite T regardless of volume.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukester View Post
Just wondering if anyone would have sent this girl straight to the bench…

3rd quarter, JV girls. From trail, I whistle H1 as she hits V1, forearm to forearm, while V1 is in the air shooting. I tell partner what I’ve got & who’s shooting, then report. As I turn to move into position for the free throws, I’m met by H2 who asks (unemotionally, if not politely) “where did she get her?” In stride as I move toward my spot, I reply “she got her on the arm.” H2 then points & follows up with (now in a sarcastic tone – not that it would necessarily matter) “you saw that from over there?”… I hit the whistle and signal her T without hesitation and get to report yet again. Before I go into the “rest of the story” (because then it got interesting with the coach, too…) I wanted to ask here: how many out there, if any, might have tossed her for a comment like that?… How many, if any, just let it go without even the T?...
Maybe I'm getting soft, but if I had not heard anything yet from this player during the game, I would have replied with something like "Yes, you play and I'll referee". That would be my warning, and if she continued I would have penalized her.

Quote:
Then the fun continued…
When the foul was originally whistled, HC complained, but not overly-so. As I turn to report the T on H2, she’s againl complaining and now wants a time-out (obviously, to “visit” about the call…) Me: “just a moment coach” and I report the T on H2. Coach: “Time-out”… and begins to ask about the call. Me: “30 or full, coach?” She responds with “full”, as expected, and I get that reported & signal the timekeeper to start. Coach now asks ask where she got her… how could we foul that girl on the arm when she’s 6’2”?… etc.… Doesn’t apparently care for my calm, matter-of-fact answer. I tell her “that’s enough coach – no more.” As she turns to head to her team she gives me a “you guys need to call it both ways!” Whistle up to my mouth, whack, report, and now we’re shooting the 2 foul shots followed by 4 tech free throws. (She actually thenput her own seatbelt on and never said a peep after that.)

Yet another side-note to a very interesting quarter… HC never bothered to ask or apparently care about the conduct of H2. She’s still on the floor and about 3 or 4 possessions later we double-whistle her for an obvious foul on a shooter. Ball lands near her in the lane and she flings it two-handed at an angle toward the baseline. Partner is first to his whistle for that whack, and now H2 is done for the evening.

Good stuff.
The HC probably deserved the T from your description.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:05am
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I think a T is most appropriate for the first case.

As my father use to say "We are not equals"

Officials and players are not equals, I don't care how loud she was. If it was a coach that whispered it, that's a different matter IMO. A coach is an adult (if only by age ). And at this level, players are still kids.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:13am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
First one on H2 is just a T, IMO.

+1 second was nothing
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:23am
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
+1 second was nothing
Yeah, I would definitely need more info.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:35am
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If that player hadn't been a problem earlier, I'd probably tell her to just play the game and I'll referee it -- her reaction would decide whether I called a technical in that situation. It certainly isn't a flagrant T. If I'm picturing the situation right, that is.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukester View Post
Just wondering if anyone would have sent this girl straight to the bench…

3rd quarter, JV girls. From trail, I whistle H1 as she hits V1, forearm to forearm, while V1 is in the air shooting. I tell partner what I’ve got & who’s shooting, then report. As I turn to move into position for the free throws, I’m met by H2 who asks (unemotionally, if not politely) “where did she get her?” In stride as I move toward my spot, I reply “she got her on the arm.” H2 then points & follows up with (now in a sarcastic tone – not that it would necessarily matter) “you saw that from over there?”… I hit the whistle and signal her T without hesitation and get to report yet again. Before I go into the “rest of the story” (because then it got interesting with the coach, too…) I wanted to ask here: how many out there, if any, might have tossed her for a comment like that?… How many, if any, just let it go without even the T?...
As a method of avoiding the T, I might tell her something positive about her play, and then tell her to concentrate on the upcoming rebound.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 12:13pm
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Just from reading what you posted...I think you did a fine job.

Maybe, as Bob said, let the coach know you will talk to her AFTER you report the information to the table.

ZERO tolerance from smart @$$ players...good job on the T's...IMHO.

BTW...no way flagrant for the first T...a simple T was sufficient.
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Last edited by RookieDude; Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 12:16pm.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 12:43pm
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
As a method of avoiding the T, I might tell her something positive about her play, and then tell her to concentrate on the upcoming rebound.
Sorry, that's way too much effort and sugarcoating the issue -- that the behavior is not acceptable. Maybe it doesn't raise to the level of a T, maybe it does, but I'm not complimenting anything.
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