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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
What the gent in the OP is suggesting is that we ignore fouls on made baskets.
Right, which is something we do in soccer.

In an attacker is fouled while he blasts a shot into the upper 90, we ignore the foul (unless it's cardworthy). While there's no need to yell "play on" here, the advantage concept is still applied.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 01:38pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Right, which is something we do in soccer.

In an attacker is fouled while he blasts a shot into the upper 90, we ignore the foul (unless it's cardworthy). While there's no need to yell "play on" here, the advantage concept is still applied.
We're not ignoring it; we're playing advantage even if we don't signal it in this particular case. It's still a completely different thing than what's being suggested and done for a completely different reason.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 02:44pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
We're not ignoring it; we're playing advantage even if we don't signal it in this particular case. It's still a completely different thing than what's being suggested and done for a completely different reason.
I think it's exactly the same thing.

In the soccer case, the reason the foul "appears" ignored, is because we're playing advantage, as you said. The OP is attempting the same principle in basketball, to play the advantage by ignoring a foul when the score counted.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 02:55pm
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Originally Posted by Blindolbat View Post
I had an official that I respect very much, with many years of playoff experience, tell me after observing me that any foul called on a made basket is an unnecessary call. Went so far as to say "and 1" shouldn't ever be called unless the contact is very egregious. There were five other experienced officials in the locker room while he was talking to me and afterwards all were a little confused by these comments.
I'm all for letting skilled players play through some contact as long as there's no advantage, but don't the shooters deserve a little protection, especially on plays that aren't very saavy from the defenders. And does everyone really wait to see the result of a shot before they're calling fouls?
Thanks for your thoughts.
IMO - Wrong! Fouls are fouls... on marginal contact (50/50 plays) we can have a patient whistle and then decide if the game needs to whistle or not. Think about this... why should we penalize an offensive player for making a good move and reward the defense for fouling? Give the man a foul shot!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 02:56pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I think it's exactly the same thing.

In the soccer case, the reason the foul "appears" ignored, is because we're playing advantage, as you said. The OP is attempting the same principle in basketball, to play the advantage by ignoring a foul when the score counted.
In soccer:

Advantage played: a goal is scored.
Foul called: no goal is awarded and a penalty kick is given

Which best suits the offended team? Advantage.

In basketball:

"Advantage" played: a goal is scored.
Foul called: a goal is scored and a free throw is given.

Which best suits the offended team? Calling the foul. Every time.

So, no, the concept of advantage from soccer, namely, don't allow the offended team to be hurt more by enforcing the penalty for a foul, is not the motivation to not calling "and ones" because an "and one" doesn't hurt the offended team.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
So, no, the concept of advantage from soccer, namely, don't allow the offended team to be hurt more by enforcing the penalty for a foul, is not the motivation to not calling "and ones" because an "and one" doesn't hurt the offended team.
WRT made shots, you're right, but the concept comes into play with contact (note I didn't say foul) on the drive before the shot. If A1 is driving past B1 and B1 bumps him off his path a little (but not enough to negatively affect the drive), calling the foul does hurt A. If it slows A1 down enough for B2 to catch up to the shot, that's when a patient but confident whistle is helpful.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 03:13pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
WRT made shots, you're right, but the concept comes into play with contact (note I didn't say foul) on the drive before the shot. If A1 is driving past B1 and B1 bumps him off his path a little (but not enough to negatively affect the drive), calling the foul does hurt A. If it slows A1 down enough for B2 to catch up to the shot, that's when a patient but confident whistle is helpful.
Agreed, but this is advantage/disadvantage, which is part of deciding whether B did foul, and is (or at least should be) separate from the decision (in soccer) of whether to merely acknowledge the foul or to enforce the penalty (which is "Playing Advantage"). The latter thought process doesn't belong in basketball.
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
So, no, the concept of advantage from soccer, namely, don't allow the offended team to be hurt more by enforcing the penalty for a foul, is not the motivation to not calling "and ones" because an "and one" doesn't hurt the offended team.
I think we're on the same side here.

I tried to point out the reason why advantage, as it's known in soccer, is NOT used in basketball (mostly continuation), and the the example in the OP was pushing for an advantage mentality. I'm not advocating one way or the other; I'm merely explaining the divide, as I see it.
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Old Tue Feb 07, 2012, 07:05pm
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Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
We as an association got the same speech about a year ago.
We got the exact same spiel at our local board meeting on Sunday. Full moon? Sunspots? Something in the water? (Imagine Twilight Zone sound effects here.)
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