Simultaneous whistles

[Chris Whitten]

Two whistle game with A1 driving in the lane toward his basket when he enters heavy traffic. Partner @ lead whistles a hit on his side of A1 and I whistle one on my side. We get together and determine his foul occurred first and penalize only that foul. Is there ever a situation where one would penalize both?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Two whistle game with A1 driving in the lane toward his basket when he enters heavy traffic. Partner @ lead whistles a hit on his side of A1 and I whistle one on my side. We get together and determine his foul occurred first and penalize only that foul. Is there ever a situation where one would penalize both?

By rule you're actually supposed to since what you're describing is a multiple foul. In practice we always choose one.

4-19-11

A multiple foul is a situation in which two or more teammates commit personal fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time.

[Adam]

If he wasn't shooting, you cannot penalize both. If he was shooting, don't be the first crew in your area to call this.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he wasn't shooting, you cannot penalize both. If he was shooting, don't be the first crew in your area to call this.

Also known as a pioneer call...pick one call and enforce it.

[just another ref]

This case play doesn't matter, but another one, much less well defined, does matter.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he wasn't shooting, you cannot penalize both.

Why not?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Why not?

Because the ball was dead on the first one. If the second one were intentional or flagrant, the original question would have even been relevant.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Because the ball was dead on the first one. If the second one were intentional or flagrant, the original question would have even been relevant.

The whistles were simultaneous. Why are they allowed to get together and decide which was first?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Two whistle game with A1 driving in the lane toward his basket when he enters heavy traffic. Partner @ lead whistles a hit on his side of A1 and I whistle one on my side. We get together and determine his foul occurred first and penalize only that foul. Is there ever a situation where one would penalize both?

Here's what happens - again, by rule - if you decide to go with both calls. I've officiated 20+ years and have never seen it happen but it's in the rule book which means it must've happened somewhere:

Rule 10-6

6. Multiple Foul:

a. One free throw for each foul:

(1) No try involved.

(2) Successful or unsuccessful two-point try or tap.

(3) Successful three-point try or tap.

b. Two free throws for each foul:

(1) Intentional or flagrant foul.

(2) Unsuccessful three-point try or tap.

Plus ball for throw-in if intentional or flagrant.

NOTE: If one or both fouls of a multiple foul are flagrant, two free throws are awarded for each flagrant foul. Any player who commits a flagrant foul is disqualified.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The whistles were simultaneous. Why are they allowed to get together and decide which was first?

Because the acts were two separate acts that didn't happen at the same time.

(Give it up and find a new cause.)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Because the acts were two separate acts that didn't happen at the same time.

In the OP, maybe not, but hypothetically they could be. But, even then, it's okay to discuss and come out with a single solution if two signals were originally given?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In the OP, maybe not, but hypothetically they could be. But, even then, it's okay to discuss and come out with a single solution if two signals were originally given?

Quit being silly. You KNOW that if it is for two separate acts, by rule, the ball is dead on the first one. So you MUST figure out which occurred first.

In the blarge situation that you're alluding to, it is one single act with two expressed judgments....neither of which could have possible occurred before the other AND such that neither official's judgement is allowed to override the other.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Quit being silly. You KNOW that if it is for two separate acts, by rule, the ball is dead on the first one. So you MUST figure out which occurred first.

So now it is impossible that the two separate acts occurred at the same time? And what if they're not exactly the same? 4-19-11 says at approximately the same time.

In the blarge situation that you're alluding to, it is one single act with two expressed judgments....neither of which could have possible occurred before the other AND such that neither official's judgement is allowed to override the other.

And why is that? Why can the officials not get together and discuss in this one, but they can in the other one?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And why is that? Why can the officials not get together and discuss in this one, but they can in the other one?

Because that's the way it is (or is interpreted to be).

NCAAM and NCAAW have the same woriding on double foul (and it's at least approximately the same as FED). Yet, one interprets it one way and one the other.

Work to change it if you like. Write your state. Write the FED. Propose a rules clarification. etc. But please, please, please stop bringing it up here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And why is that? Why can the officials not get together and discuss in this one, but they can in the other one?

Seriously, you're going to have to ask the rules comittee, or submit a $#%#^%$ rules change.