2 or 3 points?

[onetime1]

1) A player attempts a 3 point shot from behind the arc. The defense takes off from inside the arc and clearly blocks the shot. The shot goes in. What is the call?

2) A player from behind the 3 point arc attempts to pass the ball into the post. The defense inside the 3 point line deflects the ball into the basket. What is the call?

[mbyron]

1. 3

2. 2

[tref]

I say 3 & 3.

[bainsey]

This...

Originally Posted by tref

I say 3 & 3.

backed up by that...

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

5-2-1
5.2.1c

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bainsey

this...



Backed up by that...

+1

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This...



backed up by that...

Read this wrong at first. If it does not touch the same team or floor it is counted as a 3.

[mbyron]

We just had this question, and Camron talked me out of counting play 2 as a 3.

[bob jenkins]

5-2-1
5.2.1c

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by onetime1

2) A player from behind the 3 point arc attempts to pass the ball into the post. The defense inside the 3 point line deflects the ball into the basket. What is the call?

If it's clear that the touch by the defense is what made it go in, this is a 2.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's clear that the touch by the defense is what made it go in, this is a 2.

I agree if it is apparent that A1's try is unsuccessful because it is no longer a try.

Nevermind, misread the play.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I agree if it is apparent that A1's try is unsuccessful because it is no longer a try.

Play 1 or 2 here?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Toren

Play 1 or 2 here?

I was referring to 2 but I mistakenly thought it was a try. So disregard my previous post.

[onetime1]

Here's the text of 5-2-1:

A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
__________________


5-2-1 clearly states "a teammate"... why does it not address the defense? If the ball is deflected in the basket by a defender on a post feed is it covered by the rule? Think of the defender who is covering the passer with the ball. The passer is behind the line. The defender is inside the arc. The ball is passed from the offensive player on a post feed and the defender closest to the ball deflects it into the basket.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it's clear that the touch by the defense is what made it go in, this is a 2.

This is technically true since 4.41.4 says "the try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, ..."

But I think it's easier to explain from the angle of it being clear that the try was unsuccessful. (short of the rim, CLEARLY wide of the goal).

It's really just wordsmithing but I think starting down the path of saying the defensive touch made it go opens you up for more questions than just explaining the try had ended.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by onetime1

1) A player attempts a 3 point shot from behind the arc. The defense takes off from inside the arc and clearly blocks the shot. The shot goes in. What is the call?

2) A player from behind the 3 point arc attempts to pass the ball into the post. The defense inside the 3 point line deflects the ball into the basket. What is the call?

Depends what kind of pass we have. A bounce pass into the post that is deflected and goes in is 2pts. A chest pass into the post that never was above the rim until after the deflection is a 2. An "alley-oop" type pass that was thrown toward the basket but was deflected might well be scored 3. A player on the wing who is obviously throwing an overhead skip pass to the other side of the court that is deflected and goes in IMO is still a 2. Rule 4-41-2 does bring the element of an officials judgement regarding a try for goal.
What if the passer/thrower is fouled after the deflection and the ball goes in/misses? Do you count it and give 1 FT? Or 3 FTs if the deflection doesn't go in? Judgment is required in these situations.