ten second count starts when?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
First of all Chuck, you get all that ribbing because you deserve it.

See what I mean, Hommie?

Seondly, it's not "Homey", it's "Hommie", which to me sounds vaguely French.

Yeah, but who ever heard of a Homboy? I thought he was going for the homeboy image. Could be wrong.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Official Hommie
Mr. Elias

If you keep calling me Mr. Elias, I'm gonna start calling you Mr. Hommie. "Chuck" is fine.

Hommie is just a name for the internet. I thought it was neat so I used it.

Then Hommie you shall be.

I just want an official ruling of some kind. That is all I am asking for. Other than that we will be debating this all day long in official's meetings and other discussions. I just think the National Federation has dropped the ball on this one.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time the FED has dropped the ball. But I honestly think that if you read the applicable rules, it's not really debatable. You're not allowed to have team control in the backcourt for more than 10 seconds. Since the team already has control when the ball goes into the backcourt, that's when their time starts. I suppose somebody could disagree, but only until they read the rule carefully. In my opinion.

My final point is that it would not take an hour for the players to go after the ball. The ball would either go out of bounds or be picked up by a player.

I agree. There's no way that the ball would sit in the backcourt untouched for 10 seconds. However, the ball could be deflected into the backcourt and the defense could apply pressure in the backcourt. If that happened, you would need the 10-second count, and you'd need to start it at the right time.

I just want clarification.

I think you got it from Bob

[ChuckElias]

If you're set on seeing a case from the FED, then I guess you need to keep looking. But if you just want to know the right answer, then you've already got it. As I said, if you read the applicable rules, it's pretty clear; so maybe the FED thinks that no further clarification is necessary. While I think the ruling is clear, a play in the casebook couldn't hurt.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Official Hommie
Mr. Elias

Hommie is just a name for the internet. I thought it was neat so I used it.

Back to my point. I just want an official ruling of some kind. That is all I am asking for. Other than that we will be debating this all day long in official's meetings and other discussions. Is this too much to ask for? Or at the very least just say in your opinion it should be ruled this way because. But I am sure someone here or somewhere else will disagree with it unless we have some official ruling to back up the interpretation we have here. I just think the National Federation has dropped the ball on this one.

Hommie, NF 9-8 is very clear. "A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds."

Does team control exist? Yes.

Is the ball in the BC of the team with control? Yes.

We have team control of the ball while the ball is in the BC, so, yes, there is a 10 second count. PLAYER CONTROL IS NOT REQUIRED.

Let's say that A1 is in the BC and passes to A2 in the BC. But the ball is deflected by B1 and is loose. Does the count continue? Of course it does. Why? Because we have team control of the ball while the ball is in the BC.

Also, you may look at this year's NFHS Part II exam. I don't have my copy at the moment but a question appears around #85. Perhaps someone who has the exam handy can post the actual statement but it goes something like this.

It is a violation if A1 passes the ball to A2 while in the FC, the pass is deflected by B1, goes into the BC and is left untouched in the BC for 10 seconds.

The answer to the question is TRUE. That's as official as it gets!

[Hawks Coach]

I also agree that there is no ambiguity here. The rule is team control, just as in the backcourt violation rule. If you aren't resetting the shot clock, then A still has team control. If A has team control and ball is BC, you need to be counting.

And Chuck, it is not clear to me why you don't like this. I look at it as A screwed up allowing B to touch the ball. The count has started, get the ball and get it front-court. And if there is a shot clock, you really need to hurry cause it is still ticking, too.

Other officials say they don't like another rule, specifically: A has ball frontcourt, B taps, A touches but does not control in FC and ball goes BC, A retrieves, violation. They say it is unfair to A. I say A has team control, they should pass better. Not my fault they let B tap the ball.

[stewcall]

If I remember correctly on last year's part B exam there was a question about A having the B ball in front court and then the ball going to backcourt after 10 seconds is this a violation? (assumed A or B did not go afer the ball)
The answer was T- violation-

I will look the question up when I get home LATE tonight

Stew
CVBOA

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by stewcall
If I remember correctly on last year's part B exam there was a question about A having the B ball in front court and then the ball going to backcourt after 10 seconds is this a violation? (assumed A or B did not go afer the ball)
The answer was T- violation-

I will look the question up when I get home LATE tonight

Stew
CVBOA

Stew-
I just said that.
Look above.
BBR

[stewcall]

Stew-
I just said that.
Look above.
BBR [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes you did 32 min before my post- I ws pulled away from my desk for 45 min- I was in the middle of writing my response- when I return I sent my response- I guess (great) minds think alike- except yours was thourough and quoted the rule and question on the test mine did not
stew

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by stewcall
Stew-
I just said that.
Look above.
BBR

Yes you did 32 min before my post- I ws pulled away from my desk for 45 min- I was in the middle of writing my response- when I return I sent my response- I guess (great) minds think alike- except yours was thourough and quoted the rule and question on the test mine did not
stew [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, if you have the exam, feel free to quote the exact statement. I can't locate mine at the moment.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Official Hommie
You do not have to be a smart *** to answer my questions.

No, but it helps.

[Nevadaref]

This is as close to a casebook play as you will get on this situation:

NFHS 2002-03 Basketball Rules Examination -- Part II
#99 It is a violation if, in A's frontcourt, A1 passes to A2 but A2 fumbles the ball into A's backcourt where it remains untouched for 10 seconds.
The answer key says: True, and 9-8 is the given rules citation.

This tells us that not only is this a 10-second violation, but that you need to start the count right away. That last part can be deduced from it being a violation in 10 seconds, not 12 or 15.