another block/charge "twist"

[Chris Whitten]

Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

No. No.

[letemplay]

Based on your description, I'm going with the PC as well, no question.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

After initial LGP is obtained the guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact. Nice call!

[jTheUmp]

Once LGP is established, the defender can move laterally or backwards to maintain LGP, and can duck in anticipation of imminent contact. The feet don't have to be stationary, although that's one of the indicators

Sounds like a good call to me.

[just another ref]

Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Also, on a related note, even if the defender doesn't move at all, some think that if the contact is not centered directly on the torso of the defender and the defender doesn't subsequently fall down, it can't be a charge.

[tjones1]

Sounds like the correct call to me, too.

4-23

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Also, on a related note, even if the defender doesn't move at all, some think that if the contact is not centered directly on the torso of the defender and the defender doesn't subsequently fall down, it can't be a charge.

Yep. Another common myth. I hear that a lot...."If the defender backs up or doesn't take it right in the chest, it's a block".

Too many officials penalize the defense IMO.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Or, s/he may move outside his "cylinder" after the offensive player became airborne. Then, the block is the correct call.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Yep. Another common myth. I hear that a lot...."If the defender backs up or doesn't take it right in the chest, it's a block".

The only way you can battle the myth -- besides clearing it up verbally every single time you hear it (oy!) -- is to call it correctly. If someone objects that the defender was moving, just counter with, "yes, laterally" or "obliquely." It's hard to effectively debate that point.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Once LGP is established, the defender can move laterally or backwards to maintain LGP

A small but important point, the defender can also move obliquely.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Or, s/he may move outside his "cylinder" after the offensive player became airborne. Then, the block is the correct call.

Yes, but often, even if he does move, it is only slightly. Offensive player is airborne in such a path that the contact would have been on the shoulder, but the defender rotates and moves slightly so now the contact is directly in the chest. PC

[gdudik]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

Sounds like you got it right to me.

4-23-3-e
"After the initial legal guarding position is obtained, the guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact."