The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   another block/charge "twist" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/85669-another-block-charge-twist.html)

Chris Whitten Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:08pm

another block/charge "twist"
 
Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

HawkeyeCubP Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 812624)
Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

No. No.

letemplay Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:11pm

Based on your description, I'm going with the PC as well, no question.

tref Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 812624)
Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

After initial LGP is obtained the guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact. Nice call!

jTheUmp Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:12pm

Once LGP is established, the defender can move laterally or backwards to maintain LGP, and can duck in anticipation of imminent contact. The feet don't have to be stationary, although that's one of the indicators

Sounds like a good call to me.

just another ref Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:23pm

Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Also, on a related note, even if the defender doesn't move at all, some think that if the contact is not centered directly on the torso of the defender and the defender doesn't subsequently fall down, it can't be a charge.

tjones1 Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:24pm

Sounds like the correct call to me, too.

4-23

zm1283 Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 812651)
Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Also, on a related note, even if the defender doesn't move at all, some think that if the contact is not centered directly on the torso of the defender and the defender doesn't subsequently fall down, it can't be a charge.

Yep. Another common myth. I hear that a lot...."If the defender backs up or doesn't take it right in the chest, it's a block".

Too many officials penalize the defense IMO.

bob jenkins Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 812651)
Here's the problem with the twist. Defender is stationary, with the dribbler coming straight at him. At the last possible moment, naturally, the dribbler makes a move to try and go around. The defender makes the twist described above. He may or may not move a foot. Trouble is, most fans, and, let's face it, some officials, say "He was moving," and call a block.

Or, s/he may move outside his "cylinder" after the offensive player became airborne. Then, the block is the correct call.

bainsey Thu Jan 12, 2012 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 812657)
Yep. Another common myth. I hear that a lot...."If the defender backs up or doesn't take it right in the chest, it's a block".

The only way you can battle the myth -- besides clearing it up verbally every single time you hear it (oy!) -- is to call it correctly. If someone objects that the defender was moving, just counter with, "yes, laterally" or "obliquely." It's hard to effectively debate that point.

Welpe Thu Jan 12, 2012 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 812632)
Once LGP is established, the defender can move laterally or backwards to maintain LGP

A small but important point, the defender can also move obliquely.

just another ref Thu Jan 12, 2012 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 812662)
Or, s/he may move outside his "cylinder" after the offensive player became airborne. Then, the block is the correct call.

Yes, but often, even if he does move, it is only slightly. Offensive player is airborne in such a path that the contact would have been on the shoulder, but the defender rotates and moves slightly so now the contact is directly in the chest. PC

gdudik Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 812624)
Two whistle game, I'm at Lead. Defender has LGP established in the paint. Big kid dribbling in from half court. Easy to tell he's going to the bucket hard, so I'm making sure the defender maintains LGP. Feet planted, arms straight up, he's good. At the last split second the defender "twists" his torso (only) to the left so he doesn't take it right in the face. Didn't completely bail out, but didn't move legs or feet. Just twisted. Must admit it surprised me, but I stayed with the charge.

Its a good HTBT, but nothing more than what I described. Would you penalize the defender for this? Anything you would add or do differently?

Sounds like you got it right to me.

4-23-3-e
"After the initial legal guarding position is obtained, the guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact."


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1