"That's a foul!"

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you normally assume the worst possible meaning?

"Worst?" How do you mean?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

"Worst?" How do you mean?

You're assuming it is an imperative (meant to command you do something and deserving a technical foul) by deconstructing the statement under a microscope as if it were formal, written grammar when it was merely informal, casual spoken language where words are frequently implied for the sake of brevity but are easily discernible from the greater situation. It could just as easily have been interpreted as a plea instead of a command and when viewed in the context in which it occured, that is all it was.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're assuming it is an imperative (meant to command you do something and deserving a technical foul) by deconstructing the statement under a microscope as if it were formal, written grammar when it was merely informal, casual spoken language where words are frequently implied for the sake of brevity but are easily discernible from the greater situation.

Beautifully stated, Cam. Very eloquent, indeed.

Still, I respectfully disagree. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. Instead, we need to learn to deal with our frustrating situations. If you don't handle them well, life can take you over easily.

Besides, I'm objectively taking the statement at face value. If the kid does not address an authority figure properly, be it a parent, teacher, or any other adult in charge, there are consequences. It's all rather simple. And once again, Juggling had to T up that same kid who wasn't handling the situation well. It was almost inevitable that a T was forthcoming.

[fiasco]

And I thought I was argumentative.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

.. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. ...

But this is a subjective term. What's disrepectful to you may not be disrespectful to me and vice-versa. I have years of arguments with my ex-wife to prove this to be true.

I've had the privilege over the last few years to work with some officials who have had some very successful careers. One common thread from all their pre-games is that we all have our own thresholds and we have to handle business how we see fit.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Beautifully stated, Cam. Very eloquent, indeed.

Still, I respectfully disagree. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. Instead, we need to learn to deal with our frustrating situations. If you don't handle them well, life can take you over easily.

Besides, I'm objectively taking the statement at face value. If the kid does not address an authority figure properly, be it a parent, teacher, or any other adult in charge, there are consequences. It's all rather simple. And once again, Juggling had to T up that same kid who wasn't handling the situation well. It was almost inevitable that a T was forthcoming.

The point is that his statement was NOT disrespectful at all. You're reading the wrong meaning into it. It is a request, not a demand.

The fact that the kid ultimately earned a T for another action doesn't change the meaning of his earlier statement.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The fact that the kid ultimately earned a T for another action doesn't change he meaning of his earlier statement.

Change? Of course not. The impasse here is that I do indeed find it to be disrespectful, and not surprisingly, disrespectful actions continued to the point where Juggling T'd up the kid.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

An order/command requires intent and presumed authority; neither are present in the comment in question.

Intent? Probably not. Authority? Definitely. Are we not authority figures on the court? Besides, I'm not sure where you're getting your definition for "order," but it seems to be the crux of our division here.

Regarding your stop-sign point, I also never said such things were ineffective. Quite the contrary. I've used them a few times, and they've always worked (so far).

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've had the privilege over the last few years to work with some officials who have had some very successful careers. One common thread from all their pre-games is that we all have our own thresholds and we have to handle business how we see fit.

There it is. I think you provided some well-needed common ground, BNR. In fact, I think I'll steal that line for my own pre-games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Beautifully stated, Cam. Very eloquent, indeed.

Still, I respectfully disagree. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. Instead, we need to learn to deal with our frustrating situations. If you don't handle them well, life can take you over easily.

My final take on this infernal topic:

Yes, the statement is "imperative." No, it's not an order/command. Not every imperative statement is an order. An order/command requires intent and presumed authority; neither are present in the comment in question.

Originally Posted by bainsey

Besides, I'm objectively taking the statement at face value. If the kid does not address an authority figure properly, be it a parent, teacher, or any other adult in charge, there are consequences. It's all rather simple. And once again, Juggling had to T up that same kid who wasn't handling the situation well. It was almost inevitable that a T was forthcoming.

Not at all, I'm not sure where you're getting this. The one and only time I've used a stop-sign with a coach, he ran right through it and got a T. Does that mean the stop sign is an inneffective (or counter-productive) tool? Not at all. It just means that coach didn't get it.

[bob jenkins]

I don't know where it's written, or taught (other than Maine, apparently) that an imperative statement is a T.

I prefer Personal, Profane or Persistent. The Personal needle moves a little on this, the other two stay pegged at zero.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't know where it's written, or taught (other than Maine, apparently) that an imperative statement is a T.

No-one taught me this. Like Juggling's area, such actions aren't all that common here, so that's where I draw the line. Besides, I don't talk to authority figures that way, either. It's my threshold. I don't think I could define it any more simpler.

[Camron Rust]

Whatever threshold you choose to apply, being similar to the rest of the pack will usually work better for you than having a threshold different than the majority.

We have a few people around here who's T threshold is pretty low and it doesn't help them one bit with either coaches OR other officials. They just get labeled as overly officious, rabbit-eared, thin skinned, officials.