"That's a foul!"

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're the only one reading this as some sort of order.

You have to do what's right, Snaqs, not what's popular. We're officials, not fans.

And again, Juggling passed on this, too. That very kid didn't shut up until Juggling issued the T.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

You have to do what's right, Snaqs, not what's popular. We're officials, not fans.

This is BS. You clearly are the only one in this thread who thinks your take on this scenario is "right". Not everything is black and white - certainly not on subjective interpretations of something someone said. It's not often when everyone disagrees with one person's take...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

You have to do what's right, Snaqs, not what's popular. We're officials, not fans.

And again, Juggling passed on this, too. That very kid didn't shut up until Juggling issued the T.

You're right. Do what's right. But if you're swimming against the stream, it might not be the stream that's wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right. Do what's right. But if you're swimming against the stream, it might not be the stream that's wrong.

Or as my friend Dave would say, "When it's you against the world, bet the world."

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

You have to do what's right, Snaqs, not what's popular. We're officials, not fans.

The problem is, and you've done this before, is that you apply your personal standard to unsporting conduct and then refer to it as "what's right".

Out here, I'd be stuck working kindergarten ball if I T'd up some of these things.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The problem is, and you've done this before, is that you apply your personal standard to unsporting conduct and then refer to it as "what's right".

Fair enough. Here's where we separate fact from opinion.

What's right is that what was spoken is an imperative sentence. As we all know (but perhaps some have forgotten), an imperative sentence is a defined as an order or command, directed at someone (with "you" understood, and therefore typically left out of the sentence). To say that this is not an order is to ignore the definition. This is black and white.

What's opinion is whether an imperative sentence from a kid a T-able offense. If I'm reading everyone else correctly, the general opinion is that it's technically an order, but so what? Or, you have to take into context what the kid said. (I won't dispute the subjectivity in this area.)

Or, it's not an order at all. This is the objective point that I dispute.

I'm the only one here who believes an imperative sentence from a kid is a T-able offense. That's fine. But, like the rules and their definitions we discuss here, our language has rules, too. If you choose not to T up a kid for giving you an order, that's one thing. Just don't tell me it's not an order.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

. .. Just don't tell me it's not an order.

Now who's ordering who? or is that whom?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Now who's ordering who? or is that whom?

"Whom." T me up, 7!

[rockyroad]

If the kid says "Pull your head out of your a$$, ref", that would be a T'able imperative.

"C'mon and lighten up on the calls a bit" is not a T'able imperative to anyone else who has commented on this thread. It's whining from a kid on the bench.

Again, tell him to knock it off and move on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm the only one here who believes an imperative sentence from a kid is a T-able offense. That's fine. But, like the rules and their definitions we discuss here, our language has rules, too. If you choose not to T up a kid for giving you an order, that's one thing. Just don't tell me it's not an order.

Oh FCOL.

When I tell my wife, "get me a glass of water," is that an order?
When I tell my commanding officer, "give me a second," is that an order?
When a coach says, "call the foul," is that an order?
When a player says, "give me a timeout," is that an order?


Sentence structure isn't nearly as important as context, tone, intent, etc. You know it, but you're digging in your heels on this. So be it.

If I think a player is actually trying to give me an order, sure, I'll consider a T. But this ain't it.

[APG]

Player: "Give me a timeout."
Bainsey: *Technical foul*

According to what you said, you would T this kind up since this is an imperative from a kid to you. Now, I don't really think you would whack this kid would you (assuming he said it in a nonchalant way)?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

When I tell my wife, "get me a glass of water," is that an order?
When I tell my commanding officer, "give me a second," is that an order?
When a coach says, "call the foul," is that an order?
When a player says, "give me a timeout," is that an order?

YES, all of the above. By the standards of language, an order does not require subordination.

And for the record, I've never heard a kid say "give me a time-out." They've just yelled "time out!"

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

YES, all of the above. By the standards of language, an order does not require subordination.

And for the record, I've never heard a kid say "give me a time-out." They've just yelled "time out!"

I get the feeling you'd be a tough partner to work with. Just my opinion.

[APG]

Originally Posted by bainsey

And for the record, I've never heard a kid say "give me a time-out." They've just yelled "time out!"

Originally Posted by bainsey

Seriously? I can't think of a single circumstance where I'd allow a player to give an official an order.

Consider it a hypothetical then...are you going to T up his request...given to you in the form of an order?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

YES, all of the above. By the standards of language, an order does not require subordination.

And for the record, I've never heard a kid say "give me a time-out." They've just yelled "time out!"

So,

A1 has the ball in transition, only one player to beat. As he goes by B1, B1 hacks A1's arm. It slows A1 down slightly, but not enough to really affect his shot and he makes a wide open layup.

After his shot, B calls timeout. A1 approaches you to ask why you didn't call a foul.

"Because you played through it and got a wide open shot."

Player quietly responds, "call the foul."

You calling the T?

He's not ordering you to do anything. It's a request, with the "please" or "I wish you would" implied by the tone and context. I can guarantee you, I'm not giving any orders to my command structure, and if they took it as such I'd be in trouble.