"That's a foul!"

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

YES, all of the above. By the standards of language, an order does not require subordination.

And for the record, I've never heard a kid say "give me a time-out." They've just yelled "time out!"

Did you ever play the game?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Did you ever play the game?

Playing the game is completely irrelevant to officiating the game.

[Raymond]

Plenty of coaches have said "Give me a time-out". Some have even said "Give me a f**king time-out". Have T'd any of them yet for that.

I have T'd an assistant coach for saying "that's a foul!", but that's because yelled it out twice.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"Give me a f**king time-out".

Now this might warrant a T. Maybe not since he used them little ** thingies.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

1. Fully agree.

2. I think herein lies our divide. I can only read/hear what's in front on me. What you inserted parenthetically makes a vast difference, and I sure wouldn't penalize that.

So, you normally assume the worst possible meaning?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Now this might warrant a T. Maybe not since he used them little ** thingies.

Coaches disgusted with their teams. Curse word, yes. Directed at me or yelled out loud, no. So no T from me.

I've even had a coach say to me "Stop bullsh*tting" when I was BS'ing with my partner during a dead ball and the coach wanted to ask me a pertinent question. Again, curse word, yes. Imperitive statement, yes. Yelled outloud for others to hear, no. No T from me.

Of course, as I stated in another post a while ago, I don't remember ever giving a coach a T for cursing. Always have been for being demostrative and/or loud.

Players on the other hand, whole separate set of (stricter) standards.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you normally assume the worst possible meaning?

"Worst?" How do you mean?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

"Worst?" How do you mean?

You're assuming it is an imperative (meant to command you do something and deserving a technical foul) by deconstructing the statement under a microscope as if it were formal, written grammar when it was merely informal, casual spoken language where words are frequently implied for the sake of brevity but are easily discernible from the greater situation. It could just as easily have been interpreted as a plea instead of a command and when viewed in the context in which it occured, that is all it was.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Playing the game is completely irrelevant to officiating the game.

It is relevant and to dismiss it as having no relevance is narrowminded. Former players are getting opportunities to move up faster in part because of their understanding of the game.

Are there good officials who never played the game? I am sure there are, but former players understand the game better.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

Former players are getting opportunities to move up faster in part because of their understanding of the game.

I must have been absent the day that poll was taken...

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're assuming it is an imperative (meant to command you do something and deserving a technical foul) by deconstructing the statement under a microscope as if it were formal, written grammar when it was merely informal, casual spoken language where words are frequently implied for the sake of brevity but are easily discernible from the greater situation.

Beautifully stated, Cam. Very eloquent, indeed.

Still, I respectfully disagree. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. Instead, we need to learn to deal with our frustrating situations. If you don't handle them well, life can take you over easily.

Besides, I'm objectively taking the statement at face value. If the kid does not address an authority figure properly, be it a parent, teacher, or any other adult in charge, there are consequences. It's all rather simple. And once again, Juggling had to T up that same kid who wasn't handling the situation well. It was almost inevitable that a T was forthcoming.

[fiasco]

And I thought I was argumentative.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

.. Just because a kid is frustrated is not a reason for him to be disrespectful. ...

But this is a subjective term. What's disrepectful to you may not be disrespectful to me and vice-versa. I have years of arguments with my ex-wife to prove this to be true.

I've had the privilege over the last few years to work with some officials who have had some very successful careers. One common thread from all their pre-games is that we all have our own thresholds and we have to handle business how we see fit.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I must have been absent the day that poll was taken...

Not sure what your point is, but I have been to plenty of camps where some of the clinicians are former players. They will tell you that an assignor saw them play and the assignor has said when your playing days are over, call me and we will turn you into a referee. I have been in discussions with D1, D2, D3 assignors and they have said that former players understand the game and that those officials can be taught the other things they need to know.

Now that is not saying guys are just jumping right into a 50 game D1 schedule, just that they are getting more opportunties and they advance faster than someone who did not play.

Then it is up to them to work on the rest of their game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

It is relevant and to dismiss it as having no relevance is narrowminded. Former players are getting opportunities to move up faster in part because of their understanding of the game.

Are there good officials who never played the game? I am sure there are, but former players understand the game better.

Can you, for the purposes of this discussion, define "former players?" College? High School? Intramural?

I know of very few officials who never played basketball at any level. The fact is, most people who never played at all just aren't interested enough in the game to officiate it. I know of one such official, but only one. That's not a sample size worthy of determining the validity of your claim here.